• NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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    3 days ago

    I mean state capitalism is by definition not communism. This isn’t a no true Scotsman they’re just two different things.

    • artificialfish@programming.dev
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      3 days ago

      Sure but words have philosophical pre-definitions and real world usages. It’s also possible that the pre-definitions are impossible, and that all attempts to achieve them lead to something else, it’s natural then that that something else becomes the new meaning of the word.

      If I gave a recipe for bread, and it always came out to be shit, that word “bread” would come to mean “shit”, even if the old book said “bread is not shit”

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        3 days ago

        In that case we’d say “X can’t exist”, not “X is Y”. That’s the case for the word utopia, for example. Also non-state capitalism socialism exists and includes for instance the Paris Commune, anarchist Ukraine and for a surviving example Rojava.

        • artificialfish@programming.dev
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          3 days ago

          Logically you might do that, but linguistically you certainly would not. Words drift in meaning all the time. No other country actively calls itself utopian. Many still actively call themselves communist, and are led by people who call themselves communists, and think they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.

          Think of the term Christian. Christian used to mean people who did what Jesus said to do, or maybe what Paul said Christian meant in that book we all have. But now, academically, Christian means any tradition which claims to be following Jesus, which includes Mormons and Jahovas Witnessess and Catholics and that weird doomsday cult down the road. If you wanted to clarify, you’d say “Pauline Christianity” or more likely “Lutheranism” or something. Only Christians clap back and say things like “true Christianity” because of course they would.

          I hate to say it but small and or temporary implementations of “true communism” do not break the trend. Let them fight a war against overwhelming capitalist powers and then call me back.