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I am NOT disagreeing with you about either of your statements.
With that said, AI does have a place in animation to ease the burden of animators. A big area for this is the tween frames, but if my understanding is correct they are already using AI for this.
Unfortunately, like we have seen in the video game industry, AI will be used for full replacement instead of as an assistant tool.
In my opinion, the cause of “the burden of animation” is being underpaid and overworked. If there were better laws that can address these issues, we wouldn’t need to resort to AI.
But for in-betweening, I assume you’re referring to something like CACANI but that’s a bit different from generative AI I think. It behaves more like 3DCG because the lines are vectors.
Here I was, thinking that the first AI-generated anime was Ave Mujica. Because it’s that bad.
- The script sounds like it was written by AI.
- The animation in half the scenes is like 12 FPS (because they couldn’t be bothered to wait for a full render).
- The characters lips move like goldfish eating flakes whenever they speak/sing.
- They appear to have used stock mocap for the characters playing instruments and couldn’t be bothered to match up their movements to the music.
By all accounts, it’s like AI did 90% of the work and then they handed it off to some intern for finishing.
No, Ave Mujica was great. You can criticize its direction, but please don’t call it AI works because there are real people involved behind it, who took a lot of care in composing, screen write, and animate it. They did a great job experimenting the format, incorporating horror element on a band girl anime. Especially, when there are worse anime out there made by people who know nothing about animation, e.g. Ex-arm.
The animation in half the scenes is like 12 FPS (because they couldn’t be bothered to wait for a full render)
That’s like the standard fps for an anime. Anime was animated in what they called on-2 (a picture holds for 2 frame in 24 fps), so any other anime also animated in 12 fps. They left it as stylistic choice, and I didn’t find the lower frame making the anime feels stiff or awkward
The characters lips move like goldfish eating flakes whenever they speak/sing.
That’s also the standard in anime, they only have mouth animated with 2-3 frame open and closing. Ave Mujica did a great job at making it emotive despite that limitations
They appear to have used stock mocap for the characters playing instruments and couldn’t be bothered to match up their movements to the music.
They actually took their VA performance’s motion capture with actual experience playing their instrument. Like any Bang Dream anime, Ave Mujica has a real band counterpart and you can see their live band performance on bandori channel. I think they did a great job to emote the performance and still keep it in sync.
So, please stop comparing it with AI
People, ai is not the worse thing ever. If maintained by the right people. Big statement I know. (So don’t let Google, or Meta, or Twitter X obtain a monopoly over it.) Complaining while doing nothing to prevent that, is not helping prevent an ai monopoly.
Also, since someone mentioned artist exploitation, ai would actually reduce exploitation since they wouldn’t have to spend hours physically drawing and putting the animation together. Or atleast not as many hours as with previous technologies.
Ai opens up animation to new voices, that wouldn’t be able to animate. That can type in specifically the details of their characters. If they even want them drawn in a specific art style, they can possibly put that in the prompt. This is almost starting to look like the Photoshop doomsday all over again. Yet now people be editing photos with no problem.
Ai lets more people create their dream animations, not less. If you support minorities having a chance at jobs, you should also support the potential for more animators having new opportunities to create animations.
Ai also means you might actually get more content of a show made in an official means. If you liked a show, you can literally make fan recreations with ai and bring new life into older favorite shows that been dead for decades.
If maintained by the right people
That’s a very big if
ai would actually reduce exploitation
In an ideal world maybe. In reality, I can only see it being used as a reason to pay animators even less or where animators become proof checkers. The real exploitation is animators not being paid enough, not the amount of time they put in. AI would not solve this.
Ai opens up animation to new voices, that wouldn’t be able to animate
Like? People that don’t want to put in the effort to get good? Unless you’re disabled, anyone can animate. It just takes a lot of effort to get good at it. But if anyone puts in that effort that means you’re passionate about it and they’re precisely the kind of you want in animation.
This is almost starting to look like the Photoshop doomsday all over again.
Not remotely the same imo. One is a new tool that doesn’t try to replace the creator and allowed creatives to not need very expensive tools and space in order to do something creative. The other does try to replace the creator in nearly every aspect.
If you support minorities having a chance at jobs, you should also support the potential for more animators having new opportunities to create animations.
What a weird equivalence. How does supporting minorities equate to supporting more AI-gen? It implies they wouldn’t get the job without AI, which is much more problematic.
Ai also means you might actually get more content of a show made in an official means
I don’t see how that’s a good thing. Let’s not milk existing IPs any more than we already do. It’s just an opportunity for more slop.
There are shows that only had 2 seasons or even less. Even shows with just 5 episodes or less. Never seen the light of day since, in decades. Fans have been begging. Ai gives that opportunity. This issue i’m describing isn’t about releasing more slop, it’s about giving shows the chance that fans been saying they deserved since their cancellations. The original Teen titians ended at a cliff hanger, and if Warner bros isn’t going to finish it, well, now the fans can easily with ai.
Supporting minorities actually has a lot to do with ai. Why? Because, like I already said, ai gives the animation medium new voices. By having more people having the ability to provide their own idea of an animation with ai, you end up with potentially more *new animations made.
This issue i’m describing isn’t about releasing more slop, it’s about giving shows the chance that fans been saying they deserved since their cancellations.
The core issue here is companies not giving a shit. AI wouldn’t change that. If WB, with all those resources, who could’ve continued TT any time they wanted, suddenly generated a new season of TT with AI, would you really be satisfied with that? If they didn’t give a shit then, they won’t give a shit now.
The original Teen titians ended at a cliff hanger, and if Warner bros isn’t going to finish it, well, now the fans can easily with ai.
This would amount to nothing more than fan fiction though. Fans already have the means to do so without AI, and already do with fan comics, fan animation, fan games and fan novels. Sure not to the same scale, but that gap would remain. Having AI do it changes nothing here.
Because, like I already said, ai gives the animation medium new voices
Who though? What minorities are you speaking of? Again, nearly everyone can animate, as long as you put in the effort to get good at it. The exception of course are disabled people, but something tells me companies still wouldn’t hire them even with AI.
The same scale, is actually very important, since we’re talking about fans using ai to finish projects. Is it fan fiction, perhaps, but it’l have the same quality standard from the oiginal show, and since ai can even recreate the voices, that’s also a plus for the fans.
Here are few practical examples of who would benefit in the artist side of things from ai, but not limited to, disabled people, and people that, just can’t draw good, and don’t want to go through the process of learning to draw who might have all the ideas in the world that never get utilized because they couldn’t draw to standards, etc
Now I just thought of this. Lets say you are someone who’s made a comic, but you don’t have the money to pay a big studio, and a bunch of voice actors to do your show. Ai lets you do the voices of the characters you created as you intended them as the creator of the comic in a smaller budget.
The same scale
The scale wouldn’t be the same though. Big productions will still have way more resources available than fans. The discrepancy would much more likely remain largely the same.
but it’l have the same quality standard from the oiginal show,
That’s a bold claim.There’s no guarantee of that at all.
since ai can even recreate the voices, that’s also a plus for the fans.
And also an ethical issue.
people that, just can’t draw good, and don’t want to go through the process of learning to draw who might have all the ideas in the world that never get utilized because they couldn’t draw to standards, etc
Those aren’t minorities. Drawing is, for the most part, a skill you can learn. If you don’t want to put in the effort to learn to draw, then why would someone put time into watching what you prompted to an AI? Granted, the amount of effort is probably not the same for everyone, but the point still stands. Even the most talented ones put in hours of practice.
If you have a lot of ideas, there are tons of other roles you can fulfill in creative productions like scriptwriting, directing, producing and tons more. Animation productions don’t just rely on people that can draw. If you want to help, help in the way you can with your own skills. That’s more satisfying in the long run anyway. Why would you want a role that you didn’t put effort into learning when there are people who did? That’d get boring pretty quickly.
Lets say you are someone who’s made a comic, but you don’t have the money to pay a big studio, and a bunch of voice actors to do your show. Ai lets you do the voices of the characters you created as you intended them as the creator of the comic in a smaller budget
In this hypothetical, why do you need to be on par with a big studio? What’s the problem with starting small? What’s the problem with asking amateur voice actors that aren’t that expensive or might even do it for free? Many voice actors, animators etc get their start with small projects like that. Without those, they’ll never even get the chance. AI generated projects only muddy the waters.
Things aren’t perfect from the get-go and that’s fine. That’s kind of the point. You actually get to have a journey of growth. Maybe that won’t give you instant gratification and you’ll probably struggle along the way, but is that really a problem? Instant gratification will only last so long until you want more and more. Find out what you’re good at and hone those skills. That’s so much more satisfying.
AI steals jobs from animators, illustrators, writers, and voice actors. It has no place in a creative space.
On the contrary, AI enables voice actors to change their voice in ways that biology won’t let them. If a voice actor can act, AI will give them the power to play more parts than they would have been able to previously.
It’s just a tool. It’s not the magic, “replace humans” thing people think it is.
Pro capitalism regressive take.
Actually, the take was really just talking about preventing monopolies, closest thing to anything about related to capitalism.
I just don’t see where you got ‘Capitalism regression’ from, my comment or from others comments. In this comment thread, the op, is just saying the usual anti ai stance. It doesn’t (I don’t think) have anything to do with changing anything from capitalism to socialism.
Although having one person almost exclusively using ai, could risk creatig a monopoly for voice actors. But realistically, just don’t leave it to one person, the issue is greedy people trying to nickel and dime as much as possible and spending less and less, not the ai tech itself.
“AI steals jobs from lists jobs.”
If you want to discuss ideal fantasies, then discuss dismantling the need to hitch artistic talent to survival in a post scarcity world. To dismantling the need to be paid for created art. It’s more achievable than stopping capitalism from preying on the utility of low effort profit. Otherwise it’s history repeating every other job replaced by machine advancement. Artists are just big mad at ai because it’s now their turn to face the chomping maws of endless profit. This is what comes for every job the moment a way is found to automate or do it better. If you dont like it, then push for progressive changes. Otherwise it’s just people trying to create a moral issue around AI instead of acknowledging capitalism as the culprit.
Thesis: AI doesn’t steal jobs, capitalism crushes all in persuit of efficiency.
Wrong, i’m anti capitalist, I use Peertube. I’m on the Fediverse. I didn’t say anything about ‘procapitalism.’ Are we assuming? I was specifically talking about ai. Dislike the take, but don’t put words in my mouth.
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Pro artist anti theft take. Try harder.
