Hey, Firefox (& even Chrome) is an app!:-P

Do you have any sense as to how true that holds for the actual content creators? I suppose at some point it may not matter, if e.g. they go where the users are.

For recommendations to people on Reddit, PieFed’s app support is “coming soon”, but if you want more details personally, they are here.

I was agreeing with you, you dick. (There, how’s that?:-P)

Where did I say “Linux users”? Or for that matter, “only”? We were discussing the OP meme, not extrapolating beyond that to stereotype all Linux users. I mean… I use Linux, so why would I stereotype myself like that as well!?:-P

Also where did “complete inability to do so” come from? You can use emulation software such as Parallels or VMWare Fusion, or you could dual-boot into a 32-bit OS. So there’s 3 ways to accomplish the task. Granted, none as easy as if the Wine FOSS had decided to implement the task by itself, but just because they choose not to does not mean that any of those other 3 approaches will not work (bc they will).

Though yeah, I could see your last point. Tim Cook’s Apple making that business decision to switch from Intel x86 to the M-series chips and then not provide a Rosetta internal emulation system definitely can earn that for-profit corporation some negative thoughts, in comparison to FOSS. Then again, it sorta makes sense to me bc it’s a very niche case, to emulate old 32-bit x86 Windows programs on a 64-bit M-series modern Mac. They decided that the cost wasn’t worth it to them, when Parallels and VMWare Fusion already can handle the situation. So following that logic, shouldn’t we similarly be making fun of Wine, for also not stepping up to fill this gap? And all the more so bc it’s not a greedy for-profit megamaniacal corporation, but supposed to be there to provide for people’s needs, free of cost? I wonder what the logic behind that was? Perhaps that Steam exists now, so the need for such is again… just like for the Apple corporatization… too niche to bother with? If both for-profit Apple and FOSS Wine are in agreement here on that point, then I don’t really see the meme as much of a humorous joke. But maybe I’m just too unfunny to get it:-D.

I had something similar, and yeah you can replace the entire OS with a customized version, which took someone significant effort to strip away the GA (Google Apps probably?) from it. So the answer depends on how much effort you want to put into the task - it’s doable, but not easy.

Okay, but read my 3rd sentence. Though yeah, what you said is somewhat true as well - except that Mac OSX does provide a ton of stuff right out of the box, included in the price you might say, whoever pays it; also, many Linux programs require payment too, like a game on Steam, and also, many FOSS programs can work on Mac as well, especially if someone has already put in the effort to figure out how to get it to compile. So it’s not “barely anything”, even though it is lesser. Oh and also, if your work picks up the pricetag for the paid apps, then that solves that issue as well.

They both have their uses, by different people at different times - e.g. a Mac if you can get access to one, while a Linux at home if you cannot.

This is a good thing 😊

Tbf, I think the idea is that closed source is not necessarily “bad” per se but rather “unstable”, like how Reddit was closed source and then enshittified, leaving no access to it. Which reveals the limitations of that style of thinking: part of what made Reddit so accessible was that it was centralized, so even if someone did spin up a new Reddit (didn’t that actually happen, now that I come to think of it? or at least an older version of its sourcecode?), it still would not work to replace the “Reddit” that we knew. There can be only one… for such a non-federated platform.

Conversely, Kbin was open source, and spawned Mbin after Kbin.social died and Ernst stopped working so much on Kbin. Then again… look at Mbin now, barely any further ahead than it was when it was still Kbin? (In contrast, PieFed is adding new features like mad!) And the OP meme seems to me more a reflection on how open-source Wine never bothered to add support for running 32-bit x86 old Windows on a 64-bit modern Mac running on an M-series chip. In contrast, there are multiple other solutions already existing: Parallels, VMWare Fusion, and dual booting with a 32-bit Mac OS to name 3 examples. Just bc Wine doesn’t do the task, doesn’t mean that other, non-FOSS software can’t and won’t.

And even on Linux, you still would need the extra step to install libraries to get 32-bit programs running on a 64-bit architecture. So downloading and installing stuff isn’t limited to just Macs, it’s Linux too, for this exact scenario.

Or, to hear the meme tell it, Linux never has any problems ever, i.e. “in-group good, but out-group bad”. Sigh…

The search function for content is abysmally bad. Tbf it hasn’t been shown much love yet, and Reddit’s was (edit: hehe, I meant “is”) not great either. Though Lemmy’s is superb, especially newer features will allow restriction to post titles.

Another one: PieFed has a post preview option, but only for posts, not comments. So I either find out about problems (like an image not being displayed properly) afterwards, or I have to open a new tab and try a preview with either Lemmy, or a new post on PieFed.

One annoyance: you can receive notifications for things that don’t exist, or you don’t have access to (e.g. if you block all users from an instance - which on PieFed you can do that! Lemmy’s version is misnamed and so weak as to be misleading to be called an instance block, when it allows content from users on that instance to be displayed, and they can also reply to you, trigger notifications, etc., really it should have been named a community mute rather than instance block, but PieFed’s version is so helpful! - but anyway if you do that, they can still trigger a notification for you, even though you cannot see their actual reply. Another annoyance: if you leave on the default settings for either the auto-collapse or auto-hide features, then it may take you to a space on the page that has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual reply, and you have to hunt it down (which if it were removed rather than just collapsed, you will literally never find it). Also if the post or comment OP deletes their content, then the notification should likewise be removed, but right now it’s not.

So it’s not “perfect”. I maintain a backup Lemmy account for whenever the server has connectivity issues (all Lemmy instances do that too), and for whenever I run into one of these issues above.

It also would be nice to more often be able to navigate to the original location of everything, which often works on PieFed but not nearly as readily as the rainbow colored Fediverse icon in the Lemmy web UI.

Even so, these minor issues of polish aside, PieFed is a strong option, hence why I use it as my daily driver, with (next to) zero regrets, again especially for someone who is familiar with doing searching for content in Lemmy.

And new features continue to be added, sometimes weekly but definitely at least monthly. It’s so FAST! And the main dev Rimu is so helpful and friendly, as are so many others I’ve interacted with. I would suggest to make an account and check it out! The worst that could happen is that you don’t enjoy it enough and want to keep using your old one, in which case you’ll still have seen something new, plus have a not-brand-new account to use later if you ever wanted (e.g. you are prevented from sending someone a DM for the first two weeks, which is appropriate imho). However, even though the learning curve is real (bc having access to additional options offers up new ways to structure your content delivery to yourself to be more fully optimal), I am confident that as you see more what it has to offer, you’ll return the older account less and less often (you’ll still need to for moderation activities, especially since mod activities do not federate even among Lemmy instances much less across from PieFed, but for daily driving it’s quite a treat, really!).

Yes, but apparently those libraries aren’t already present on a computer by default? So the Linux user has to download and install them.

While on a Mac, the user also has to download and install an emulator, such as Parallels or VMWare Fusion (or dual-boot with an older 32-bit OS). So it’s downloading and installing something aka extra work either way.

Except that emulators for Mac aren’t FOSS. Except Wine that while there is an unofficial 64-bit version that works on Mac, it does not support 32-bit games (on an M-series chip, emulating a x86 one). At a guess, someone did not bother making such bc Steam now exists that works so well?

But this meme suffers from inaccuracies by (1) pretending that nobody has ever had any problems with Linux, ever, and (2) that this singular event once in the past 20 years of computing, and this even 6 years ago already, makes Macs “bad”, and (3) somehow blaming Mac for the decision of the Wine developers to not make software that would work across both software (running Windows on a Mac) and chip architectures (running 32-bit programs meant for x86 chips on a 64-bit M-series chip instead). Why is that a problem with a Mac, especially if you don’t need or want to run such programs, or if you do, then you are willing to download and install an emulator rather than solely use Wine, which those devs have not made work in this case?

This meme is not very insightful, and instead perpetuates the stereotypical “in-group good, but out-group bad” philosophy, imho.

Macs back then made a big deal about being backwards compatible, unlike Windows, at the time. Now the roles have switched, as you say. The transition from Steve Jobs to Tim Cook was rather impactful to the Apple ecosystem.

Still, the situation in the meme describes one event that happened 6 years ago, where Apple moved from x86 architecture to the M-series, all of once in the last 20 some odd years of computing.

But Linux has zero problems? (Again, according to the meme) I feel like I’ve occasionally had some problems with Linux, just as I’ve had problems with Mac, and between the two of them I’ve had far more issues with the former than the latter.

To be fair, emulators such as Parallels and VMWare Fusion are not free, while Linux is open source FOSS. But for perhaps that reason… why has nobody built a version of Wine that works on a 64-bit Mac (they have btw) and includes native support for the older 32-bit architectures? Like, isn’t this a failure of the Wine approach (again: FOSS architecture) to keep up with hardware, more than an actual problem with using a Mac? If somebody were to build that, then the problem would be solved? (Which again, it already is, by Parallels and VMWare Fusion, just not FOSS.)

In any case, I just don’t see the humor here, when all I see is the tribal “in-group good, but out-group bad” philosophy on display. There are plenty of issues with Macs - but this is hardly one of them, it seems to me. Especially when after digging in sufficiently deeply to understand it, you find that it’s actually a deficiency with Wine, not Apple.

Doesn’t iOS also force updating apps?

I haven’t used iOS in 10 years, but I do recall that even on older Android devices, Netflix wants you to keep closer to the current version (oddly enough, even for a 1st or 2nd gen Chromecast?). So I think not technically, although I don’t know the current status, but even so, yeah, but same as Android too. Ofc, at some point the device gets so old that Apple won’t let you update it any longer, so that’s one way to get it to stop updating:-P.

In researching this a bit more, I confirm that 64-bit Mac not running 32-bit programs is a valid criticism. However, my original point stands: what Linux system can also allow you to do similarly? Especially across a different chip set - like why expect a 64-bit Mac M-something to run a 32-bit game compiled for Windows using a x86 architecture, without needing to install something else to specifically handle that transition? Here is an example of someone doing the same with Ubuntu, needing to first install multiple libraries before it will “just work”.

Even so, there are multiple ways to make this procedure work on a Mac. Other than dual booting with an older copy of a 32-bit OS, emulators can work at near native speeds. Granted, it’s not as convenient as Wine (I would guess?), and won’t be until someone puts in the effort to make a 64-bit version of Wine (which does exist) that will natively support 32-bit programs, again compiled for a different OS (Windows) and chip architecture (x86). It only won’t work until… you know, it does.

Which it already does, using the likes of either Parallels or VMWare Fusion, which yeah requires the complexity of downloading an additional program and setting up a VM environment.

On the other hand, notice how according to this meme, there are zero problems with Linux, like EVER. In comparison, having to download an extra program, due to an event that happened all of once in the last 20 years of computing, and even that was 6 years ago now… apparently that’s “too much work”? How did this meme creator (which seems not OP according to other comments here) figure out how to join a Lemmy - wouldn’t having to pick an instance first likewise be too much to handle?! 😜

I kid, but this kind of tribal thinking (“in-group good, out-group bad”) doesn’t help anything, imho.

It’s probably more likely that they just needed to find something bad to say about Macs, and were too lazy to find one of the actual legitimate reasons (like it being closed source or something? probably bc the one used “sounds better”, to someone who can’t recognize that it is gaslighting).

The amount of purity whinging in Linux communities generally makes me sorry whenever I respond to one of these posts. On the other hand, I am not smart so here goes once more into the fray… 🤪

Mac is arguably more Unix than Linux is. Mind you, that doesn’t make it better, but yeah, why not allow people the freedom to choose?

Especially if your workplace is picking up the tab for the device, and all the more so if the only options are Windows vs. Mac bc that’s what the company has knowledge of due to them being used before.

Linux is great. Windows sucks ass. Mac is also great. What is so hard about saying that?

Defending the truth seems worthwhile to me. Even if for a mega corporation. There are valid criticisms to be used… but this is not one of them. We can do better!

But… to be fair, are there any versions of Linux that let you do this either? Replacing the OS, especially jumping from 32 to 64-bit, is kinda a HUGE deal!? I’ve had numerous problems switching Linux distros, and some issues switching Mac software, and they seem more or less the same to me? - if anything, it was easier for me to switch on a Mac?

I don’t know about Wine and older games - I would guess that recompilation would be in order. I could see if they jumped the gun specifically for the newer (at the time M1) series, that such tools were not yet ready by third party apps as Wine. Though Mac switches chip architecture so exceedingly rarely that it is barely an issue, long-term, and if anyone using Linux switched architecture it would similarly require recompilation as well?

I feel like I am not expressing myself well here, but I’m out of time to edit and hopefully you see what I mean:-).

This is the most often cited reason that celebrities, reporters etc. say that keeps them from using Mastodon.

People ignore the needs of the vast majority of the userbase to the peril of us all. Mastodon could have worked to reach out to those content creators to give them what they demanded as a deal breaker, but instead now we’ve lost them to Bluesky and will in all likelihood have to wait for enshittification of that platform to ever have another chance at that.

Likewise the Threadiverse works for us who use Arch Linux btw, and to have conversations with internet randos (we are downright kind here, or at least we can be, although that’s virtually gone over on Reddit, outside of tiny niche subs with barely any content, much as we have here:-), but I don’t know how we can attract the content creators, especially when the audience for their content is not enough for them to bother with (AND it’s “too complex to use” - I mean it’s not, except… isn’t it though? Like where’s the modmail? or a notification if your comment gets removed/locked? why does viewing it from different instances show different sets of comments, and also different upvotes/downvotes?!? why does join-lemmy website want to send me to Lemmy.ml, and why oh why didn’t someone tell me that I can’t criticize Russia, China, or North Korea there!? It would have been nice if that had been WRITTEN DOWN SOMEWHERE!?!? maybe the side-bar would have been a good place to put it, like the “Rules” section?!?).

The experience on Lemmy (unlike Linux, no /s here) is objectively terrible, it’s just that we here prioritize different factors and are willing to put up with its many (Many MANY) inconveniences in order to use a FOSS platform. But others have their own priorities, and that’s okay - everyone should be free to use what they want. The downside to that is that outside of Linux and generic content like memes and news, there is very little content available here, especially for niche interests. Hence why the content creators remain on Reddit bc that’s where their audience is (except the ones who simply unplugged from social media entirely). i.e. fuck spez, but… also, he was right. He really can treat his users poorly, and enough of them will remain to keep it afloat, rather than come here where it’s “difficult to use”, and Lemmy moves very slowly to address those needs (e.g. to allow for account migration, where e.g. messages sent to the old place will be forwarded to the new).

It is nice. I use my older Lemmy account less and less often these days… I am glad that Lemmy exists for people - especially someone just using it as a back-end for whatever app of choice they use as an actual interface - but I am even more glad to have PieFed, which suits so many of my needs (tbf not all) perfectly or at least more so than Lemmy.:-D

The closest I’ve seen to that is PieFed, which offers something like multi-Reddits (categories of communities aka Topic areas), and word filtering where you can limit posts with the likes of “Trump” or “Musk” by either a little bit or all/none. So if you feel like avoiding news and politics (for ten fucking minutes!:-P) then you can go to e.g. Arts & Crafts, or for longer set one of those filters, yet return to seeing them later anytime you want.

Mind you, in some small ways PieFed is not as polished as Lemmy - e.g. there’s a preview feature for posts but not for comments - while in other ways it’s already more advanced, and being written in Python rather than Rust, will continue to move forward with new features much more quickly.:-)

PieFed closes most of those gaps. It’s not quite as fully featured as Lemmy, in particular the search function (but then again, Reddit’s search doesn’t work either?:-P), but it’s super easy to get started on the Threadiverse.

For one thing, you don’t even need an account or to download anything at all to start using it immediately to browse content from all across Lemmy. And the Categories of Communities featuring topic areas, which you can customize yourself and/or share with others, provide that multi-Reddit feel that people, especially from Reddit, really crave. See e.g. Arts & Crafts, and note the subheadings beneath, such as Photography. There is simply no comparison between this and e.g. the default setting for Lemmy being to only show Local content (a setting which lemmy.ml still uses today) for those without accounts.

Then if you decide to create an account, a wizard walks you through various settings, asking the user for their preferences and automatically subscribing to multiple communities based on the answers. Multiple types of News, multiple types of Politics, how many posts do you want to see with the keywords “Trump”, or “Musk” (no filtering, just a little, or block them all), etc. Or just don’t bother subscribing to certain types of (high-volume or stressful) communities at all, so that it doesn’t flood your Subscribed feed, yet still be able to access them immediately with the Topic Category at any time.

It’s not perfect, but it’s damn good:-). And for those who do want it, testing is underway for an app (Thunder).

Which post is that, can you share a link? The main thing with the democratization of moderation features on PieFed is how it places tools into the hands of the users, who unlike authoritianism, can decide whatever they want to do about what they see, individually and personally.

So e.g. while lemmy.ml will ban you from communities that you’ve never even heard of across the entire instance if you make a comment that violates no written rules (you are supposed to somehow “just know” that the anti-bigotry rule means that you can e.g. criticize genocide done by Western nations, but not done by Russia, China, or North Korea), PieFed merely places an icon next to the username, leaving it up to the recipient to decide what it means to them. Some are quite helpful, like if an account is under 2 weeks old, that’s someone who is still learning the ropes, or someone who posts often but hardly ever comments, that’s likely an unregistered bot account (or a human equivalent). Admittedly the rules to define all of those are still undergoing tweaking, but I like the idea in principle. Especially if users can choose to not display the icons at all.

Speaking of, a couple other related features affect the display of comments based on a combined up and downvote measure. One of these automatically collapses the comment chain - which requires just one click to open it back up fully - and another threshold hides the controversial/unpopular comment from view entirely. I have both of these disabled entirely, but for such people who want to live inside their echo chamber, I support their right to do so. Having a tool increases choices, and it’s up to them to use it properly. And it’s neat that PieFed allows the expansion of choices beyond merely moderator allows or denies content, to include more complex and nuanced views.

In one sense then it’s the opposite of the opinionated Lemmy, which can only remove, lock, or ban users posting content that the moderator does not like, while on PieFed the moderator can leave it up to the end user to decide its fate, with help from the community overall.

So if on Lemmy the only options are “hard”, like shouting, then yeah, PieFed is opinionated but in a “soft” way, like whispering, leaving the content up but placing a label next to it - though to reiterate again, the content can be left up, which is a huge difference.

Here’s another example: on every single post from certain instances, a message can be placed. For now the only instance this is used for, on the flagship instance PieFed.social, is Beehaw, which offers:

This post is hosted on beehaw.org which has higher standards of behaviour than most places. Be nice.

And that link goes to the actual words of the Beehaw admins describing themselves. Imagine if, for instance, someone were told that you were not allowed to criticize Russia, China, or North Korea, BEFORE having to find out the hard way, by posting or commenting and then being instance-banned, and even then not receiving a notification about that, so having to dig out what even happened, and then dig further to try to figure out why, etc. Lemmy is VERY authoritarian in nature - yes modlog but no modmail, or even a notification that content was removed, or being banned.

So yeah, in contrast, PieFed is “opinionated”, offering those soft whispers, but that’s a far cry from being so heavily a Reddit alternative that is somehow arguably even more authoritative than Reddit itself!?

Also, the Sync and Connect have many of these same features for Lemmy as well. For those who enjoy such features, PieFed has a lot to offer!:-)