Sebrof [he/him, comrade/them]

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Joined 1 year ago
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Cake day: March 31st, 2024

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  • In Rome’s slave based economy, the social relations themselves do not incentive industrialization. Slaves, as an act of understandable disobedience, would break equipment. That discourages investment in expensive tools. Also, if you are a latidundia owner, you don’t mind just working your slaves harder instead of investing in more productive tools. As long as slaves are cheap on the market, you can buy more.

    Also, the internal market for most commodities was not very large in ancient Rome. Slaves were the most bought and sold commodity (Boer makes this point in Time of Troubles). Transportation was very cumbersome, so most products that were produced were consumed locally. Any transportation would be done by sea, so major centers had to be near the ocean. Land transport was slow and expensive. It would cost the same amount to transport grain some 30 miles on land as it would to ship it by sea from Egypt to Italy.

    The economy was also largely agricultural, and the cities were not powerhouses of handicrafts and manufacturing but instead were where the rich latidundia owners lived. There was an urban proletariat, but it was not engaged in manufacturing to a large extent, at least that I am aware of. The poverty and destitution of the urban masses (see Parenti’s The Assassination of Julius Ceasar), and the enslavement of those in the country side meant that a large market for commodities did not exist outside luxury items that the slave owners could afford.

    The low productivity of agriculture also means that there is less surplus agricultural product that can go toward the non-agricultural laborers like handicrafts. If someone is not engaged in farming, then that is less labor extended toward growing food. So the productivity of agricultural must be high enough to compensate for a laborers moving to handicrafts, manufacturing, administration, etc.

    And when thinking of structural incentives, the production of goods was not regulated by increasing profits or by the exchange-value of products. There isn’t a large market due to the above reasons, except maybe in luxury goods. And a latifundia owner is more likely to be interested in buying things they (actually their slaves) can’t produce on their premises or on one of the other plantations they own. But if possible, the latifundia will produce it itself. Any profits can go to buying luxury items produced elsewhere. But the consumption of the owners and their families is limited by their stomachs. So luxury consumption plateaus for each latifundia. That’s less of an incentive to accumulate high profits.

    There isn’t much competition, nor is the market that big due to poor transportation, communication, and general destitution. So the market saturates pretty quickly in a local area. And so there isn’t an incentive to produce a cheaper product, or out compete other latidundias. And as mentioned before, why invest in more productive equipment when we have slaves? Wage labor isn’t a major social institution at the time either. So no need to accumulate profits for increasing production.

    As Marx mentions in Capital, Instead of exchange value driving the anciemt economy, it was quantity (up to a natural limit, owners can only eat and slaves can only produce so much) and use-value. Effort was put into making a better item for luxury but not into making it more efficiently with less slave labor.

    There isn’t a drive to accumulate capital, there isn’t a drive for ever increasing profits. There aren’t many avenues for value to expand and grow, and hence no capitalism.

    And the low productive capacity of their means of production (and that includes transportation), in addition to social relations (slavery) that actually disincentivize increasing productivitiy is at the heart.


  • Others have answered your question, and thethirdgracchi gave a good reading list. A book that I’d like to add which actually touches on much of what others have said is Perry Anderson’s Passages from Antiquity to Feudalism. It discusses how antiquity transitioned to feudalism and has chapters deeicated to the historical materialist paths the modes of productions of various European societies took.

    It starts with Ancient Greece, to Rome, the barbarian invasions, Charlemagne, the spread of Feudalism to East Germany and Poland and eastern Europe, Spain, Italy, the impact the Mongols had on Eastern Europe and Russia, the stagnation of the Byzantines, and more. It is focused on European history though. It is a very fun book that actually uses the lens of a mode of production to discuss history.

    Roland Boer also has a book on the ancient Roman economy called Time of Troubles.

    Something that Anderson points out is that a mode of production will not change just because the new technology has come into being. There must be new social relations that put the technology to use in a new way. Even when Rome did improve tools and basic machines, they never applied them toward production.




  • Here are some news sites I found and some context. Others much more knowledgeable than I can provide a better summary, but I hadn’t seen a response yet so thought I’d give it a shot.

    After the Second Civil War, a unity government called the Government of National Unity (GNU) came to power. This is the government of the prime minister Abdul Hamid Dbeibeh

    According to their own website

    The “Stability Support Apparatus” [SSA] was established by decision of the Presidential Council No. 38 of 2021, and Mr. Abdelghani Belqacem Khalifa was assigned to head the apparatus.

    And as Reuters puts it,

    SSA is under the Presidential Council, which came to power in 2021 with the Government of National Unity (GNU) of Abdul Hamid Dbeibah through a UN-recognised process

    It appears to be a militia under the GNU. Perhaps that isn’t the correct framing though and others can provide a correction.

    There is also a rival government, the Government of National Stability which is backed by the House of Representatives and is based in the east of the country. This government hasn’t appeared in the stories I’ve seen yet, but it may come into play eventually.

    The current events surround the death of the leader of the SSA


    Armed groups clash in Libyan capital

    Head of UN-backed government’s security force reportedly killed

    According to Al Jazeera, Abdul Ghani al-Kikli, head of the UN-backed government’s Stability Support Apparatus (SSA), was killed in a firefight in southern Tripoli. The incident reportedly took place inside the headquarters of the 444th Combat Brigade after “failed negotiations.”

    Local media reported fighting and troop movements in the Abu Salim and Mashrou neighborhoods. Al Jazeera cited witnesses as saying that soldiers from the 111th and 444th brigades stormed the SSA headquarters, with gunfire and explosions heard in various parts of the city.

    According to Al Arabiya, militias from Misrata and other cities began moving toward Tripoli last week

    The SSA was established in 2021 by the Government of National Unity to maintain security in the capital and combat organized crime.

    Libya descended into civil war in 2011 after a NATO-backed uprising that resulted in the death of longtime ruler Muammar Gaddafi.

    The last major clashes between militia groups in Tripoli occurred in August 2023, leaving 55 people dead and nearly 150 injured. In February 2025, State Minister for Cabinet Affairs Adel Juma survived an assassination attempt.

    Heavy gunfire, clashes in Libya’s Tripoli after killing of militia leader

    The United Nations has called for urgent de-escalation in Libya’s capital, Tripoli, as rival gunmen exchanged fire in the city’s southern districts after the killing of a powerful militia leader

    Al Jazeera’s Malik Traina, reporting from Libya’s Misrata, said security sources had confirmed the killing of Abdel Ghani al-Kikli, widely known as “Gheniwa”, who is the head of the powerful Stability Support Authority (SSA) militia.

    Al-Kikli was one of the capital’s most influential militia leaders and had recently been involved in disputes with rival armed groups, including factions linked to Misrata.

    SSA is under the Presidential Council, which came to power in 2021 with the Government of National Unity (GNU) of Abdul Hamid Dbeibah through a UN-recognised process.

    Traina said that at least six people have been wounded, although it remains unclear whether they are security force members or civilians.

    The GNU’s media platform said early on Tuesday that the Ministry of Defence had fully taken control of the Abu Salim neighbourhood.

    Two others told Reuters that the gunfire was echoing all over their neighbourhoods of Abu Salim and Salah Eddin.

    State of emergency declared in Tripoli after senior officer’s death

    Violent clashes erupted in Tripoli after the death of security officer Abdul Ghani Al-Kalaki, prompting Libya’s GNU to declare a state of emergency.

    The officer, Abdul Ghani Al-Kalaki, believed to be affiliated with GNU security forces, was killed under unclear circumstances. His death sparked widespread violence in several districts of Tripoli, with residents reporting sustained gunfire and explosions as rival armed factions exchanged fire throughout the night

    Mitiga International Airport — Tripoli’s main airport — announced a full suspension of air traffic. Incoming flights were diverted to Misrata Airport, located east of the capital.

    The unrest prompted the University of Tripoli to suspend all academic and administrative operations, including classes and examinations, until further notice. Several other institutions in the capital have also paused their services







  • Can second what most people say here about recruitment or “networking”. Yes, it’s true that a many people at those lib rallies are too lib to be comrades, but it definitely is not true of the entirety and hence the potentials for recruitment and even agitation can’t be written off.

    The masses of America are becoming more open to some alternative, or at least know that the crisis calls for some type of action. But due to liberal hegemony, and lack of knowledge or exposure of existing orgs, many people will go to these liberal rallies. But many people are open to and, even want, more than what these rallies themselves provide.

    Our org has used these as sites of recruitment as we’ve met people who wanted more but didn’t know where else to go until they connected with us. We met people who went to the protests but were disappointed with them for the lack of mentioning Palestine or foreign policy (not counting the laughable “hands off NATO” slogans). In one case we agitated, as well. The protests weren’t thay well organized, so it’s easy to start making more radical chants and have people join. That serves also as a litmus test for their consciousness.

    But all these are tasks of an organization, not a single person. If it is only you acting outside an org, then there it isnt politics, isn’t strategy. If possible, join an org you can see eye-to-eye with*, and together build a strategy for these rising protests.

    But if no org exists where you are, or they are all garbage, I get that struggle. That’s how it had been for me for a long time. Building an org at your locale is possible, but lots of work. But again, the existing protests are already getting people together. So you’ll know where to meet them.

    Yeah, many are uber libs, but many potential recruits are waiting amongst them. But it requires orgs to get to them.


    *(For joining an org, there is definitely an argument for not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. But I foolishly joined an org that I ended up having major disagreements with and there was much needless drama and pain before I had to leave. You want to feel good about the group you are part of.)







  • There isn’t much to explain, or at least it doesn’t seem that way with any fundy I’ve encountered. Some are “smart” in their own twisted way and have theological justifications, but the large majority are not like that. Most just believe in this strange nonsense and never think thay deeply about it. And thats fine, most people are like that with any religion, they got other things to focus on in life. But I’ve found that if the fundy types do “think” about it then it is in such a strange and twisted way that digging into it gives you psychic damage. No need to give them any benefit of the doubt.


  • I’m hearing my family now: "Of course Jesus was Christian! What else would he be? It’d make no sense for him to be in hell. Adam and Eve were Christian too. And Noah and Abraham, and … "

    And what else would my family say, well like PKMKII hinted at, if you asked my them about Jesus’ death, they would have no problem giving you a contradictory and fucked up message like: “it was good that Jesus died for our sins (why exactly did he have to, never thought about it), but it was also evil that the jealous Jews did it because they disagreed with Jesus. In fact, that’s what a Jew is you see. Before year 0, everyone was Christian or Pagan. And the people who heard Jesus but rejected him became Jews.”

    And yes, they do think that the old testament figures were Christian.

    It’s a confused and nonsensical logic because it is both good that Jesus died, but also it happened because Jews rejected him and they did thay because they are bad.

    You’re expecting reason from people who don’t have any. Just replace every thought with nonsense and hatred and you can start to understand how they think.


  • When my wife and I visited my parents out in the country, she was adamant about us keeping up our walking routine. But there is just no place we could find to walk. The small country roads have too many logging trucks (and no sidewalk), the only place to go are hiking trails but my wife wanted to get steps in and not hike up a mountain, so it wasn’t her thing and that’s understandable.

    In the end we just walked around the yard for an hour each day avoiding fire ants and ticks. One day we just went to a Wal Mart and walked for an hour. And we definitely got stares and remarks from our family. Seeing someone walk around is just out of this world for them, and it makes sense given the environment completelt stacked against it.

    And this discussion about walking and geriatric health hits real hard because my mom is constantly depressed and sits inside all day. I try to kindly nudge her and ask if she had gone outdoors any and she always says “no”. But I know that even if she wanted to go outside, there are just very limited options of places to casually walk around in. You’d have to drive 40 minutes to get to a small park where you can walk around the little league baseball field.

    Just a very hostile place all around. It’s sad