EU acolytes love conflating the EU with Europe.

The average Reform voter’s unhappiness isn’t a matter of ‘scapegoating an other’ over a media construct.

The consequences of the electorate refusing to accept this will only cause Reform’s voter base will grow.

Spending time reading, and arguing, with idiots online is a complete waste of time and energy.

Why am I doing it at the moment? Laid up with a bad back. Literally can’t do anything else.

Pretty much all of your points are dubious or plain wrong, but the truth is I can’t be bothered wasting my energy on a reply. I say wasting my energy because the various attitudes you exhibited are very common, and will lead to the rise of Reform. And like most people, you are not able to change your mind in response to new information. I wish it wasn’t going to happen but it is.

The question for me is why didn’t our intelligence services - who want to spy on everybody all the time - understand the risks and inform former governments to prepare? We now need weapons. We needed them three years ago.

I remember Sunak sitting down with Musk at some conference or other very recently, when in fact we should have been preparing for what this individual and his mates were preparing to do once in office.

Our intelligence services were and are too preoccupied with labelling teachers doctors and scientists as domestic terrorists for protesting that climate science is being ignored to devastating coming effect, and banning protests, rather than dealing with the actual threat. Unless of course they don’t really see Musk and Trump as at least an ideological threat.

Yeah but if you value the cultural diversity of Europe why would you want to see it homogenised under one corporatist banner? Why should diversity be reduced to the special designation of a few products such as stilton and champagne?

What is right for the UK might not be right for the Republic of Ireland, what is right for Greece might not be right for Germany, What is right for France might not be right for Italy. Why should laws be drafted by completely unknown people in Brussels and applied to everybody?

Ultimately, why shouldn’t people all across Europe have self-determination and autonomy? Don’t we need more devolution not less?

Could we achieve this, and have free movement of people? Yeah, but not under what the E became. It certainly requires that people from poorer countries aren’t used as basically scab/cheap labour to undermine pay and conditions of local workers of whatever origin.

Anyway, enough of that. What should best be considered a warning shot of future fascism was all sorted out about a decade ago. Hopefully UK society took note of the disaffection amongst the people that voted to leave the EU, looked at exactly what was bothering them, and, if they had good reason to be pissed off, addressed it!

What? They did fuck all but try and reverse the vote for years, terribly undermining the UK’s negotiating position, then ignored the issues voters had thus opening the door for the reform party?

Oh right.

Downvote away but you can’t downvote reality. We can still stop the fascists getting power in the UK, but not without addressing any legitimate issues reform voters have. Brexit should have been taken as a warning shot. It still isn’t.