I get that WhatsApp is not a platform to use if you care about your privacy, but WTF is “Delta Chat” and why would I switch to it rather than say Signal?
Because delta chat is using an open protocol (email) and you can run your own servers meaning it is decentralized unlike Signal. Also it is actually anonymous unlike Signal, so you don’t need to give anyone your phone number and people can’t find where you live just by knowing your username.
Because delta chat is using an open protocol (email)
So not an instant messaging protocol but rather a technology that the whole world would do differently if they could go back in time?
Could you be more concrete? In what relevant way do you think it does not work as an instant messenger? Keep in mind that Delta Chat is not a theoretical thing and it works as well as any other messenger.
Regarding SMTP:
SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol) is a foundational technology for email, but it has some limitations. Here are some ways it could be improved:
- Security: SMTP was designed in a time of less pervasive security threats. It lacks built-in encryption and authentication mechanisms, making it vulnerable to eavesdropping, spoofing, and spam. While extensions like TLS/SSL and authentication methods exist, they are not universally implemented or enforced.
- Efficiency: SMTP is a “chatty” protocol, meaning it involves multiple back-and-forth exchanges between the client and server. This can lead to latency and increased resource consumption, especially for large emails or bulk sending.
- Deliverability: SMTP doesn’t have mechanisms to guarantee email delivery. Emails can get lost, delayed, or filtered as spam. While techniques like SPF, DKIM, and DMARC help, they are not foolproof.
- Features: SMTP is primarily designed for sending emails. It lacks features for managing email content, tracking delivery status, or handling complex email workflows. Possible Improvements:
- Mandatory Encryption: Enforcing TLS/SSL encryption for all SMTP connections would protect email content from interception.
- Stronger Authentication: Implementing more robust authentication mechanisms would prevent spoofing and ensure that emails originate from legitimate senders.
- Enhanced Deliverability: Developing mechanisms to track email delivery, provide feedback on delivery failures, and reduce spam filtering would improve deliverability.
- More Efficient Communication: Exploring alternative protocols or extensions that reduce the “chattiness” of SMTP could improve efficiency.
- Integration with other technologies: Integrating SMTP with other technologies like REST APIs or message queues could enable more complex email workflows and features.
It’s important to note that some of these improvements are already being addressed through extensions and best practices. However, there is still room for improvement in making SMTP a more secure, efficient, and reliable technology.
That said, it looks like Delta Chat doesn’t actually use SMTP, having scanned through the website. Though I’m honestly unsure either way as it was only a scan.Never mind:
Delta Chat doesn’t use its own proprietary protocol. Instead, it cleverly leverages the existing email infrastructure for message delivery. Here’s how it works:
- Core Protocol: IMAP/SMTP - Delta Chat primarily uses the standard Internet Message Access Protocol (IMAP) for receiving messages and Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) for sending them. These are the same protocols your regular email client uses.
- Encryption: Autocrypt & OpenPGP - To ensure secure and private communication, Delta Chat implements end-to-end encryption using the Autocrypt standard and the OpenPGP standard. This means your messages are encrypted in such a way that only the intended recipient can decrypt and read them.
- Secure Key Exchange: SecureJoin - Delta Chat also utilizes the SecureJoin protocol for secure key exchange. This helps to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks and ensures that only authorized parties can establish secure communication. In essence, Delta Chat works by:
- Sending encrypted messages as emails: When you send a message in Delta Chat, it’s actually sent as an encrypted email to the recipient’s email address.
- Receiving encrypted messages as emails: Delta Chat constantly checks your email inbox for new encrypted emails that are meant for you.
- Decrypting and displaying messages: When a new encrypted email arrives, Delta Chat decrypts it and displays it to you in the chat interface. This approach has several advantages:
- Decentralization: No central server is required to store your messages, making it more resistant to censorship and single points of failure.
- Openness: It leverages existing email infrastructure, making it interoperable with any email provider.
- Security: End-to-end encryption ensures that your messages remain private and secure.
If you’re interested in learning more about the technical details, you can check out the cryptographic analysis of Delta Chat available on the Cryptology ePrint Archive: https://eprint.iacr.org/2024/918
I asked specifically for relevant issues and you just link general issues with smtp that have no impact on Delta Chat?
SMTP is not secure
Delta Chat sends encrypted messages over it so that’s irrelevant.
SMTP is not efficiency
Your phone can run LLMs, it can send a couple packets. Also this “chattyness” can be seen as an advantage as it is extremely robust and works on any network however inconsistent.
SMTP doesn’t have a way to ensure stuff is delivered
Yeah duh? It’s decentralized. You can’t ensure that the recipient doesn’t take down their server?…
Etc. I feel like I’m wasting my time replying to all these because it seems you didn’t even take the time to read them yourself.
If you use your email, it’s anonymous but you have to use your email which is almost never anonymous and has your phone number. Also you sometimes have to “Create an app-specific password” that delta chat will use and gain full access to your email account, which is way worse than signal or any other application. And for some accounts, you have to use your real password, and maybe disable the spam protection.
Am I wrong somewhere or is that a really stupid idea?
During onboarding of the app you only choose a name and get a random email address
If you struggle making a new email address, this is not for you.
Which applies to 99% of people making Delta Chat not a viable alternative to WhatsApp.
The Fediverse has the same problem that Linux, and Open Source in general, struggles with. The barriers to entry and network effects work against widespread adoption.
Until technology is packaged in a way that makes it dead simple and/or unavoidable, people won’t make the effort to move en masse.
Our words must be dead simple too.
‘Open source’ is a very ambiguous, confusing, phrase that makes it too easy for anti-libre software to scam.
So XMPP?
Should definitely be the go-to
As I’ve understood, Delta chat is based on the IMAP protocol and uses the infrastructure of your email provider. Thus, it uses no own server infrastructure, but has the also the downsides of the protocol and some issues with many email providers.
Wikipedia.de - Delta Chat (no English version available yet)
some issues with many email providers
This turned out to be the deal-breaker for me. GMX kept locking me out of my account because of the DeltaChat messages. They’re (of course) full of cyphertext and to email providers this must look a look like spam.
The open-to-abuse nature of email claims yet another victim.
so I found it interesting and checked it out. the protocol is all well and good but the problem is social. I’m simply not going to send people my delta chat Id and ask them to message me there instead if they have delta chat installed. I had the same problem with session messenger.
when I meet someone irl I’m trading phone numbers. not asking if they have app X installed.
this might be useful for open source projects where you can use ur delta chat id instead of ur email. but it’s not something I would use unless it’s a requirement to join some community I wanted to.
the problem signal solves by tieing accounts to your phone number is contact discovery. thanks to user IDs you no longer have to share your phone number with people u want to chat with, and can only share your user id
plus signal guarantees the metadata is encrypted. is the same true for delta chat?
So like matrix?
It’s email, adapted to a chat UI.
Oh that’s good.
I’ve often wondered how could I make my instant messaging less instantaneous, while giving a new app access to my banking emails.
SimpleX is the best alternative right now, email is a very bad protocol
Never heard of DeltaChat why not signal??
Doesn’t delta use email under the hood, an insecure protocol?
You’re better off using something like Matrix, XMPP, SimpleX or Signal.
The protocol doesn’t really matter when you send encrypted messages over it like Delta Chat. Signal is not private nor decentralized and SimpleX doesn’t have encrypted group chats last time I tried
Email? So its just encrypted SMS?
Might come down to the metadata, then, like SFTP vs FTPES or GET vs POST.
I guess so. It’s encrypted data sent over email from what i understand. Tbf i’d rather trust software built with protocols specifically built for secure and private messaging, and email is known to not be that.
