Credit to https://www.reddit.com/user/lukakopajtic/
There might be some changes that could improve it further:
Remove BraveMaybe add Signal; It’s easier than Element, but it’s also centralized- Stop suggesting Linux Mint specifically
- Recommend Hosted Nextcloud
Add GrapheneOS- Maybe add Delta chat
Maybe remove BlueskyRemove Stremio and add Jellfyin (even though it’s selfhosted and not a direct equivalent)Add ente because Immich is selfhostedAdd auroraAdd SearxNG- Add SimpleX
- Add lichess
- Add pCloud
Any other suggestions?
Temporary improved version:
| From | To | Compromise |
|---|---|---|
| X, Threads | Mastodon | Bluesky |
| Pixelfed | ||
| YouTube | PeerTube | ReVanced (just blocks adds) |
| Lemmy | ||
| Netlix, Disney+ | 🔨 Jellyfin | |
| Google Meet, Zoom | Jitsi Meet | |
| Google Docs | Etherpad | |
| Google Search | 🔨 SearxNG | Kagi, Ecosia |
| Google Drive | Nextcloud | pCloud, filen, Proton Drive |
| Google Photos, iCloud | Immich | Ente |
| Google Chrome | Librewolf, Firefox | Ungoogled-chromium |
| All messaging apps | Element (matrix) | Signal |
| Google Home, Amazon Alexa | Home Assistant | |
| Play Store | F-droid, Aurora | |
| Google Android, iOS | LineageOS, GrapheneOS | |
| Windows, MacOS | Linux Mint |
🔨 = Self-Hosted only (requires running a server)
deleted by creator
So that includes Firefox- their privacy rules have recently changed. We need a Europe based Europe made ideally non profit so can’t be sold to US browser and search engine. Chromium based or Firefox forks don’t count because they can claim some ownership or take data. We want full quarantine separation, it’s like a disease
Mojeek for search
Brave 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
fuck brave
Self hosted software shouldnt be on the list. Self hosted software is its own glorious list which can be used by the technically inclined. The average user is not going to run a server at home, nor should they without knowing what they are doing.
And why is revanced here? Thats just youtube with removed ads. Thats not moving away from youtube, its youtube with extra steps. Its going to hurt but we will have to move away from youtube, not just squint and pretend we did.
Lichess instead of chess(dot)com.
Thanks to another post in this community I found out about and it is great.
- Open source
- No ads
- unlimited puzzels from real games
- No constant message to buy premium
- All the finances are public
You can donate to the project, if you have the means and enjoy the app please do.
And their tutorials to learn how to play are fire !
if you know its a faulty picture, why didnt you edit it?
Signal and US based non profits are not ok. their gov can still access data and chatgpt used to be non profit now majorly owned by Microsoft and privately. Just find full European alternatives
Signal is E2EE how could they access the data?
Terms and conditions (even the whole structure - chatgpt is case example of non profit to private) can change the best way is to focus fully European. Also follow what the founders made before and if they sold prev companies to us based indivs. If European non profit etc even better
I would add SimpleX, Session, Threema, and Signal. Telegram sucks, and while I love the stickers, it sucks. As the other person said, Stremio is torrenting, which puts your IP address on as billboard. Don’t do it without a VPN or running it through Tor or I2P. I would add every Proton/Tuta product as an alternative to one of the 3000 Google products, like Gmail and Drive. However, I will ALWAYS recommend privacyguides.org ;3
Can you cram the reason Telegram sucks into a few sentences?
- No encryption by default (you have to start a secret chat to have end-to-end encrypted communication).
- No encryption for group chats and there is no option for secret group chats.
- They store all your chat history on their server and have the keys to decrypt it at any time.
- They have a pretty shitty support, if you need to report a bug or something, you can’t easily do that.
- They have a broken testing process for new features, may be pushed to streamline without making sure those work properly. I don’t use it as my main communication app but even with rare occasions - the app crashes way too often.
Ah okay. I mainly use it for file transfer between my devices. Is there a better way i could be doing that that you know of?
LocalSend is a good tool for sharing files between devices. It is more of a AirDrop alternative.
Session has a note to self feature afaik
Edit: also SessionX has one too
Omg, Stremio without VPN is the worst advise ever. This graphic could do get innocent pirates fined and then they’ll just think there was no alternative!!
Which EU countries besides Germany prosecute people for piracy? I’m not talking about organized piracy, like hosting a website with pirated content and stuff like that. I’m talking about a single movie/TV show/game downloaded from torrents.
For example, in Croatia, you can download whatever the hell you want and noone will ever bat an eye.
Add SearxNG as a search engine option.
Suggesting linux mint specifically is good. Linux is overwhelming to new users, don’t give them choice paralysis too.
There are several reasons why Linux Mint is to be recommended:
- That specific distro is almost superlightweight on the resources so even superold computers and laptops can run it smoothly
- it is ‘‘Windows- like’’ so transitional users can easily transfer
- Linux is compatible and supports even the oldest hardware (or has a ‘‘driver code support’’ for it). Remember that good Canon scanner without dclivers for windows? Now you can use it.
- Linux has ‘‘try without installing’’ option
I personally transitioned more than ten years ago; started with Ubuntu and that was fine, but then I discovered that Mint ‘‘flies’’. :-)
Deffinitely to be recommended to a wide public who wants to transition.
I completely agree! I switched to Linux Mint yesterday, and please don’t give me a bunch of alternatives before even deciding to try out Linux 🤣 Took me much longer to take the leap BECAUSE of all those alternatives.
How’s it going so far?
I honestly agree here. Better to suggest a specific distro than just saying “use Linux”.
Maybe add Signal; It’s easier than Element, but it’s also centralized
signal runs on amazon servers. Anything that can’t self host and isn’t federate isn’t worth it. Matrix (and element) fill this requirement. But IMHO, the best is XMPP where you can self-host or use federated servers located in other countries.
Maybe add Delta chat
Delta chat is basically email.
Remove Stremio
Why? Because it’s torrents?
Other alternatives would be viaplay or britbox. Unfortunately there’s no legal alternative that’s available in all europe.
Add aurora
Aurora is just a front-end for google playstore. You should add f-droid
signal runs on amazon servers. Anything that can’t self host and isn’t federate isn’t worth it. Matrix (and element) fill this requirement. But IMHO, the best is XMPP where you can self-host or use federated servers located in other countries.
Why would you prefer XMPP? Last time I checked most features (like E2EE) weren’t part of the base protocol.
Delta chat is basically email.
It supports mail, but also has an encrypted normal chat backend AFAIK
Why? Because it’s torrents?
Yes, it’s not really a good alternative since it’s illegal. I’m not judging but it’s not a good option for most people.
Aurora is just a front-end for google playstore. You should add f-droid
Droid-ify is F-droid
Why would you prefer XMPP? Last time I checked most features (like E2EE) weren’t part of the base protocol.
Just because it is not part of the base protocol, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or supports it.
I like it for personal reasons. Just because is lightweight and there are way much more servers than matrix, imho makes it better. However, In the end it boils down to personal preferences and your attack surface.
It supports mail, but also has an encrypted normal chat backend AFAIK
WHen i tried it years ago, it was just a normal email with a special subject that the delta chat client would read, parse and display.
WHen i tried it years ago
you should try it again, Delta Chat is totally on a different level than a few years ago, there has been tons of improvements, I started using it around 2018, now I am even contributing to it
If everything is e2e encrypted do servers actually matter?
yes. Metadata. some protocols leak more info than the others.
Also servers in only one place (institution), only makes it easier for the government to go to that place and seize them.
And what metadata is Signal leaking? As far as I know even their notifications are not sending the message.
The government seizing an entire batch of amazon servers seems unrealistic, but the data would be encrypted anyway. Do they even store messages on servers, anyway?
And what metadata is Signal leaking?
We don’t know. We don’t have access to what’s running on their servers. (yes i know that the source code is available, but there’s no way to check if that’s the same thing running on the servers). And this is a problem for me: i have to trust a walled garden.
The government seizing an entire batch of amazon servers seems unrealistic
Usually the government goes there a just takes whatever is in the rack they want. Screw the legal business that are there. That’s what happened with the pirate bay raid. If the US government wants to shut it down. It just needs to knock on the amazon door.
the data would be encrypted anyway. Do they even store messages on servers, anyway?
The problem is that you have to trust them. You have to trust a chain of organizations based in the US. Signal pays millions (who pays for this? i have my doubts that monthly donations will pay for this forever) to amazon for the servers. So using them and sending them money is the same as giving money to amazon.
If you are fine with these risks, then use it. Better using signal than using messenger and whatsapp.
We don’t know. We don’t have access to what’s running on their servers.
Aren’t they audited, tho?
(yes i know that the source code is available, but there’s no way to check if that’s the same thing running on the servers)
But isn’t this true for most services, such as Matrix as well? Nothing assures that a Matrix instance is running the exact code on git.
Usually the government goes there a just takes whatever is in the rack they want.
But if your threat model is the goverment, aren’t all services affected as well? If they want to take element’s servers, they will. If you selfhost and they want to take your server, they will?
The problem is that you have to trust them.
I feel like in communication apps you’re always going to have to rely on trust. Even if you self-host in a Swiss server, with the best intentions and security practices… Other people are going to have to trust you. You trust yourself, but others might not.
But isn’t this true for most services, such as Matrix as well? Nothing assures that a Matrix instance is running the exact code on git.
It’s valid for any server. But for signal messaging is even worse than the competitors because it’s centralized.
If you selfhost and they want to take your server, they will?
Correct. With signal there’s no way to escape the US government, but with matrix (or other federated protocol) you can make it harder, so it won’t be worth it the resources spent. You can also host it where the US government don’t have any reach.
Even if you self-host in a Swiss server, with the best intentions and security practices… Other people are going to have to trust you. You trust yourself, but others might not.
But who is more trustworthy? The US government or the swiss government?
Also, the point is to avoid american services. Signal is an american service.
Delta chat is basically email.
and how is that exactly a problem? the protocol is email, but email done right is actually good and fast, as it can be tested if you actually try out the app. The new chatmail servers are optimized for chatting, the main reason classic email providers suck is because they have to deal with spam and arbitrary decisions like gray-listing etc
Email isn’t a good protocol for instant messaging (it wasn’t designed for real time communication and it lacks some features like typing indicators or voice/video calls)
it is pointless to talk in theory without actually trying things out, besides the app doesn’t have to do only email, in fact it already has p2p support for real-time that can be used for now inside the https://webxdc.org/ mini-apps, and might be used for calls in the future, or just use WebRTC for calls, one of the mini-apps in the store “Live Chat” already has typing indicators btw. The app already has Jitsi Meet invitations integration.
Chatting in Delta Chat with chatmail feels just as fast as WhatsApp, Telegram etc. sometimes even faster depending on the chatmail server you use
The app already has Jitsi Meet invitations integration.
That’s cool!
I’m not going to change my IM app, because i’m happy with, but it’s nice to know of alternatives.
