I didn’t mean for this post to cause a bunch of arguing in the comments =(
I thought this was just some gallows humor (e.g. “Everything’s lovely except that I have to fear for my safety all the time”) type of shitpost that sounded similar to comments I’ve heard from women irl a lot.
lemmy.world mods finding out that they’ve cultivated a community of reddit incels:
When the Reddit 2.0 copies all the worst parts of Reddit: 🤯
This from a user on an instance that’s known for their open villification of any opinion that goes against the moscow and beijing dictated groupthi–
Wait, wait hold on. Could it possibly be that we both have deeply subjective views of the other large instances, because humans fall to tribalism faster than a kitten on a sock full of catnip? Maybe there’s a vested interest on every side to keep the early adopters of a decentralized social media platform infighting over meaningless stereotypes based on the letters that come after their username, making value judgements based entirely on dictated preconceptions instead of experiential conclusions and honest interaction?
… nah, probably not. And besides, it’s way more fun to just sling mud. Screw u, u commie scuzbucket.
This from a user on an instance that’s known for having a large amounts of transphobic, homophobic, misogynist and racists users and a mod team that doesnt do the bare minimun to deal with them
… Then why are you here, participating with that which you revile?
because unfortunately lemmy.ml federates with lemmy.world. even if we were to block lemmy.world on an individual level, the toxicity and hate coming from it affects and influences users of other instances. better to push back against you dweebs whenever you try to incite misogynistic hate than just cover our ears and pretend you aren’t here fucking things up.
Oh good, we agree then. There’s a certain necessity to engage with opinions counter to our own instead of pretending they don’t exist, even if it’s personally uncomfortable to do so.
i counter them out of necessity, but ideally i’d rather the lemmy.world admins do that since that’s supposed to be what they’re for.
So you’d prefer the admins allow you to pretend they don’t exist? I know that’s not what you’re trying to say, but its not an unreasonable extrapolation of your position from the comments you’re making. You feel the need to fight for what you believe in because it’s right to stand up for what you believe in, but you would rather you didn’t have to. I think that’s probably the most universally agreeable statement I’ve ever heard, sincerely. I would, too, like for this to be the case. We just disagree on how to achieve that happy state of affairs, though it’s nice that neither of us prefers a solution like “round up all the .ml/.world users in a big camp” unlike, you know, real world opinions…
Could it possibly be that we both have deeply subjective views of the other large instances, because humans fall to tribalism faster than a kitten on a sock full of catnip?
nope, it’s because your instance is operated by people who refuse to moderate disinformation under some naive belief that enough debate bro-ing is all it takes to defeat it, failing to understand that the effort it takes to proliferate hate and disinformation is much smaller than the effort it takes to refute it. as such, lemmy.world is becoming overrun with some of the most toxic motherfuckers on the entire platform because all the sane people are being driven away.
Ah, a blanket denial of everything I said. How glad I am that I’m above petty things like pointing out the comically stereotypical behavior of users from other instances. It’s nice up here, on the Mountain of Sarcastic Moral Superiority.
As an actual counterpoint, the primary way that new users get onto lemmy is always going to have the highest concentration of toxic users. Society is, if you haven’t noticed, incredibly toxic. Commonly espoused ideas like trans people being human or civil rights being important aren’t commonly supported by society at large (source: the entire world right now). The easiest way for people who support those things to find their way to instances where those ideas are popularly held is to join the most popular instance and see both the need for other instances with heavier moderation, and what those instances are. How many people hear about blahaj or sh.itjust.works before signing up to lemmy, vs. sign up there as their second account? Personally, I’m pretty grateful that the most toxic opinions are largely self-segregated into a place where people aren’t required to interact with them. It’s less pleasant, sure, but it’s also the best place in the fediverse to get an accurate idea of what the real societal opinions are. And if it gets to be too much, I can always just flee .world (or .ml, I mean seriously guys) like a base coward and spend time under one of my alt accounts on a more heavily moderated instance like .blahaj instead.
that isn’t necessarily true though: you don’t see other popular instances of fediverse platforms having these problems when they actually put effort into enforcing rules that protect the community and discourage disinformation and hate speech, and it doesn’t make them any less of a gateway for new users.
the staff on lemmy.world promote disinformation, and that does not benefit any of us, especially when disinformation has a way of spreading that the separation of instances alone isn’t enough to prevent. most are still either directly federated to lemmy.world, or federated to instances that are federated to lemmy.world.
toxicity itself isn’t inherent to society but a consequence of how our current society is set up, and social media platforms that deliberately proliferate disinformation play a role in that. if you want to actually counter hate and disinformation the first step you should take is to stop outright encouraging it and fight it at the source.
also, implying people are cowards for wanting to flee your hate instance is despicable and privileged-ass take. fuck you.
also, implying people are cowards for wanting to flee your hate instance is despicable and privileged ass-take. fuck you.
That was pretty clearly self deprecating. Who in the hell calls someone else a ‘base coward’, anyways? For that matter, who would even take seriously being called a base coward? I think you might genuinely be treating everyone else as hostile as a means of self defense, which while understandable is in itself incredibly (edit: exhausting is a much better term) to interact with.
I have real comments here, along the lines of what you mean by promoting disinformation and the moderation standards you would prefer to see, because those are sincerely interesting. But come on, what’s the point in trying to have a discussion when you treat everything like an attack on you & yours? I’m not even trying to be hostile here.
it’s self-deprecating but has hostile implications toward the many users who really did leave to escape ill treatment toward them. marginalized people get enough of that in real life after all. i don’t think they should have to endure it at all, nor do i think it’s cowardly to want to avoid it. if i’m reading too much into this and that wasn’t your intention, i’m sorry. though i’m really not sure how else to interpret that.
when i say lemmy.world promotes disinformation, i’m referring to their recent announcement that they would require community moderators to entertain disinformation in the name of having open debate. they redacted that announcement following the backlash if i recall correctly, but it is nonetheless reflective of how they have been moderating things on their instance, which is apparent in threads like this one that stir the pot and bring out all the rabid misogynists that have been tolerated and continue to be tolerated on here. the lack of moderation toward these things aligns with what they stated in that announcement, that these are ideas we should be open and fair to.
the problem of course is that being open to disinformation alienates the marginalized people affected by it, harms the people who would be deceived by it, and only serves to benefit the people who would spread it. it’s a lot easier to fight disinformation and bigotry by stopping it at the source rather than letting it fester and then trying to take it down with debate. we all know how difficult it is to argue in good faith against those arguing in bad faith. it takes no time and no effort to just make something up, but more time and effort than most people even have the energy to give to refute it with fact-based evidence.
we’re in the midst of a social crisis with the rise of the incel movement and MRA influencers. those who follow these things are more emotionally invested in them than logically, and near impossible to get through to. you might be able to convince a few undecided readers if you put sufficient effort into your replies, but ultimately the spread of these movements are much faster than the handful of individuals who make an effort to stand against them. a lot of us just don’t even have the time. we need support from those who are in the position to actually take preventive measures against them.
I’m the last one to defend a tankie… But go fuck yourself.
My god, I am a cis male and I don’t feel threatened or targeted by this. I think there’s a reason why certain men feel attacked.
Seriously man, it’s so fucking cringe. I thought this website would be better than the pathetic comments here, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
I should have expected to see a bunch of whining when I opened the thread.
I’m also cis male and I am worried about strange men coming near me at night when no one is around. Because, you know, muggers and shit. They murder sometimes too. Does that make you whiny little bitches’ hurt feelings go away?
My brother is a cis male too, he was assaulted and robbed, by two males (at least seemingly so, can’t exactly say what they identify as 6 years later).
Just a bunch of males who only complain about the statistics of men being harmed when women talk about systemtic sexism. They’d probably also loudly claim that white people are victims of racism too when a black people talks about being harassed by cops.
Fucking hate Reddit 2.0 for this shit.
Well I was just called a bigot for daring to say that calling quoting the statistic that men commit more murders than women sexism is no different from calling quoting the statistic that most crimes in Sweden are committed by white people racism. So there’s no probably about it in my mind.
Same people will gladly hurl slurs and sexist remarks then call it misandry when a woman said she doesn’t need a man with a dildo, or reverse racism when a black person said they enjoy spices in their meals.
Heaven forbid that woman say she doesn’t need a man because there are other women.
Yup, and we are less likely to be targeted. Also, not a whole lot of women out there murdering around town at night.
More likely to be targeted. But more likely to be the attacker as well. The ways to lower those numbers come from building up the lower and middle class though. More crime comes from desperate people in desperate times. Help the people, minimize the problem. (It won’t ever fully go away, so I can’t ever say get rid of the problem)
Same, i also don’t like to walk around at night. And it’s not because i’m afraid to get hit on by some random women.
That’s Ironic
Because you are solipsistic & are desperate to get into the pants of a woman, that’s why
tfw you can’t see women as anything other than sex objects and you just assume everyone else is like you
That’s rich coming a person that wants to demonize men (Oh & BTW, who told Women to make an OnlyFans ?? Not men)
Reading the comments make me feel like I’m reading 4chan. How are people getting triggered by that post
Reddit is 4chan with account, .world is trying to be reddit 2.0 by it’s admins, not a shock.
Ah, misandry, my old friend.
ah yes misandry is when women don’t just shut up and accept disproportionate violence from men
Misandry is where you see men as the problem - nothing more or less. It’s easy to quote stats, it’s much harder to address the real issues underneath.
Misandry is where you see men as the problem - nothing more or less.
Right, so literally nothing about the post you’re replying to. Cool.
i don’t see men as the problem, i see patriarchy as the problem. patriarchy causes disproportionate violence from men. observing the consequences that stem from larger social issues and how they affect you personally doesn’t mean you deny the existence of the said issues. calling it misandry only serves to downplay the effects of those consequences and ultimately downplay the existence of their source.
Random woman: I like late night walks, but I’m scared for my safety.
This thread for some reason: YOU DON’T THINK MEN GET SCARED? MURDERED!?
Like, chill. Yes, men can absolutely be murdered/hurt walking alone. But are we really going to sit here and act like women are making up their concerns/grievances out of spite? For some reason, if anyone mentions a general concern/issue related to women’s experiences with men, some people trip over themselves to say how it’s actually not an issue and how it’s actually so much worse for men. If I’m listening to a male DV victim and I go, “well, actually, women are more likely to be victims of DV. You know, it’s actually not even an issue for you. Here, look at these numbers that prove that women are the victims. Do you not mention it because you hate women? Why are you trying to ruin our spotless reputation as delicate flowers that can do no wrong with your lies”, you would think I was nuts, and for good reason.
I mean these comments are pretty insane but cmon you know what you said is not equivalent, this meme uses othering language and people got mad at it because it groups them with people they likely despise. Why can’t we just be on the same team? If I say “being outgoing is a vibe too bad women love emotionally abusing people” I sincerely hope you wouldn’t defend that.
I wouldn’t defend it because I wouldn’t even think it was talking about me in the first place. Some women are emotionally abusive, but I wouldn’t assume they literally meant every single woman on earth is an asshole and feel the urge to swoop in with, “Hey, not all women. Some of us are nice! Here, look at these studies that show that women are more likely to be in the other end of the abuse!”
Honestly, I’m more concerned if you think the threat of murder at night is a comparable threat to emotional abuse from any gender.
That’s fine for you, but people who are judged or seen as dangerous just for the way they are (i.e. often just being a man) might be sensitive to things that imply they’re dangerous because they probably experience it in their daily lives too (a kid being less trusting towards you, a person taking a wider path around you). Angry responses usually come from a place of hurt, these are would-be allies who are just reading it differently.
Not gonna lie that may have been the most depressing thing I’ve ever read. Please read a book on ptsd if you think it’s not comparable to the fear of being killed. “The body keeps the score” is a great book which includes cases caused by emotional abuse.
I am judged for the way I look. I am very large and masculine, as well as black. I am more likely to be confused as the danger than be in danger. I have had women cross the street to avoid me. So, as a person who has experienced this more than being seen as a woman, I still wouldn’t be upset. I don’t get mad or offended when a woman avoids me because she doesn’t know me. I’m a stranger, and she doesn’t owe me her bravery or even her kindness. Yeah, she doesn’t know me, yeah, I’m not a threat, but I don’t know that woman and it’s not for me to police.
And you know what I mean by the last part. I am very, very well aware that emotional abuse is extremely damaging. Any kind of abuse is. What I meant was that if you have the choice of murder or emotional abuse, I would pick emotional abuse simply on the ground that I’m not dying, not because I think it’s “easy.” I thought it was belittling the danger that some people face as not a fear for their lives. That’s why I compared it to male DV because I believe that to be on a similar level, not that emotional abuse just doesn’t exist. I was hoping that seeing it from another perspective, one that is usually ignored and belittled when men go through it, would allow for some understanding as to how it’s hurtful to belittle some women’s concerns walking at night.
Like, this is so fucking ridiculous (not you, this thread). All the post said was “too bad men murder” and we have people twisted up because it wasn’t , “too bad there’s the potential for man to murder another man at night.” i don’t see this hoopla on posts when men say they can’t cry, or that, for an example, they don’t get complimented enough. I don’t women coming in because they’re like, “I actually do compliment men. Do you know how it feels to be assumed to not give compliments with such a statement?” No, I am not saying compliments are on the same level or social stigma, but everyone seems to understand hyperbole in those situations.
How is this not bigotry and discrimination toward a group of population?
I’ve seen the same post in far right groups just changing the word man by some racial slur. Same energy. And also same bigots trying to justify their intolerance with shitty statistics.
Because men are statistically more likely to commit violent crimes. Targeting both men and women. Women are just easier targets because they are physically weaker.
in some places people of certain skincolors or descents are more likely to commit certain crimes so that’s not really an argument.
The better argument IMO is that the racist versions target discriminated minority groups, while this one targets the group that is generally not the victim
There is a difference between systematic oppression based on race/class/faith/etc, and males being more aggressive across nature.
Because men are statistically more likely to commit violent crimes.
So you’re saying it’s ok to make negative statements about a subset of people as long as they are statistically more likely to commit violent crimes?
Men violence towards women is a result of systemic oppression. Stop trying to make social comentary when you understand jackshit about society.
You are not the victim, you’re just playing one to justify your sexism, misogynistic prick.
How is this not bigotry and discrimination toward a group of population?
I don’t know about discrimination but definitely bigotry and stupidity.
lol
lmao, even.
damnn these comments are why i don’t recommend this platform to anyone i know.
i think i’m going to change instances after this.
Blahaj.zone is good!
I blame women.
For not murdering enough. The streets would be safer if men had the same fear.
I mean, most women probably have experience with cleaning up blood.
I blame women.
😡🍴
For not murdering enough
😮💨👍
