You’re right. There are definitely unsavory actors acting under the banner of communism, whom in an ideal world would be dealt with. Historically, many of thrm have been capitalists trying to secure an increase in profit, however.
I’m NOT a tankie, I’m an anarchist, in fact. However, all one has to do is look at history (real history, not propoganda. Actual numbers.) To see that communism’s infamous death toll is actually much, much lower than capitalism’s even when adjusted for whatever factor you can think of. For an accurate, well-researched piece with plenty of nuance and primary sources that deals with this matter explicitly, I reccomend the book ‘Blackshirts and Reds’. It’s a fascinating breakdown of how capitalist propoganda has deeply distorted our view of history, especially when it comes to both fascism and communism.
If the very word ‘anarchism’ is outaide your comfort zone, then yes I suppose I won’t be able to be very productive for you.
If you do find yourself curious though, I’m always happy to talk politics, and always open to seriously considering and empathizing with other points of view from my own! Even capitalism 😆
The use of public facilities does not preclude critique of them. That’s the same argument as ‘capitalism made your iPhone’.
One can both believe that the police should be defunded, and be left with them as the only viable solution to resolve a conflict. The fact that anarchists must sometimes rely on the police, I assure you, is not pleasant for anyone involved 🤣
Except maybe those who profit from police activity somehow 🤷♀️
You are mistaken from the first sentence! The purpose of anarchy is to dismantle unjust heirarchies, NOT to remove the existence of authority. It’s a common mistake, and one I used to make myself.
I don’t think anyone would disagree that capitalism’s competitive drive has in ways benefitted humanity, amd I’m grateful for those benefits. It’d be foolish to discard them. Howver, all one needs to do to see how it’s harming us more than helping, is to look at the weather.
‘Just make a new system’ is actually the point of most communist/socialist movements. Because the world is so defined by capitalism, communism right now basically just means ‘everything else’, but if you look at the history of communism in the world (which is as fascinating as it is heartbreaking) you can see that there is a huge variety in beliefs of how it should be instituted! Socialists, anarchists, tankies, environmentalists (yes, ecology is intend3d as that alternative system you suggest) all have to act as more or less the same movement because of the overwhelming success of capitalist propoganda
If capitalism truly was a level playing field, free of inheritance and prejudice… I would certainly agree with you. But it too, is imperfect. I would encourage you to compare, sometime, the results of a country being permitted to attempt communism. Modern day Vietnam is a lovely place, for example.
Regardless! The fact that you seek socialism makes us Comrades, because I do too. I’m actually a pacifist! While I have pretty radical beliefs, I have peaceful hopes for achieving them. Which means a road back through democracy, into social democracy, and hopefully one day direct democracy. We both want the same thing, less greed. I’m happy to fight (metaphorically) side-by-side with anyone who has that same goal.
Not to defend capitalism (I would be more in favour of anarchism provided that certain conditions have to be met first), but I would say that communism only killed less because it is a newer ideology. It is only 150 years old, give or take, with it’s practical existence lasting for 76 years. If we are considering mercantilism as capitalism (both are still looking for maximising profits), then in over 300-400 hundred years it’s logical to say that capitalism killed more, by virtue of how long profit seeking has been part of human economic policies.
And since we are talking about economic policies, barring the death camps, practically speaking, if communism went for as long as capitalism has, it could catch up with the number on death tolls, considering that communist centralisation of agriculture and ignoring experts caused similarly human-induced famines. A lot of people kinda forgot about Lysenko and his deliberate sidelining of knowledge and experience of farmers and scientists, causing poor harvest and many people starving to death. And I probably don’t need to remind everyone what Mao’s war on sparrows caused on China’s agriculture. Moreover, even after Stalin’s death and Lysenko out of the picture, USSR-- and many Soviet satellite states-- have been on ration for many years. USSR struggled to up the agricultural production in spite of being a vast country with abundant fertile lands.
Those are both issues caused by issues that capitalism is subject to as well! Authoritarianism, stupidity and ignorance… Sadly, any working society must be capable of managing these issues. Statistically speaking, as far as the sources I’ve seen have showed me, capitalism tends to cause more death and suffering than communism. One needs only compare the state of Soviet countires before, after, and during the USSR to see that quite plainly represented.
You’re right. There are definitely unsavory actors acting under the banner of communism, whom in an ideal world would be dealt with. Historically, many of thrm have been capitalists trying to secure an increase in profit, however. I’m NOT a tankie, I’m an anarchist, in fact. However, all one has to do is look at history (real history, not propoganda. Actual numbers.) To see that communism’s infamous death toll is actually much, much lower than capitalism’s even when adjusted for whatever factor you can think of. For an accurate, well-researched piece with plenty of nuance and primary sources that deals with this matter explicitly, I reccomend the book ‘Blackshirts and Reds’. It’s a fascinating breakdown of how capitalist propoganda has deeply distorted our view of history, especially when it comes to both fascism and communism.
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If the very word ‘anarchism’ is outaide your comfort zone, then yes I suppose I won’t be able to be very productive for you.
If you do find yourself curious though, I’m always happy to talk politics, and always open to seriously considering and empathizing with other points of view from my own! Even capitalism 😆
deleted by creator
The use of public facilities does not preclude critique of them. That’s the same argument as ‘capitalism made your iPhone’.
One can both believe that the police should be defunded, and be left with them as the only viable solution to resolve a conflict. The fact that anarchists must sometimes rely on the police, I assure you, is not pleasant for anyone involved 🤣
Except maybe those who profit from police activity somehow 🤷♀️
deleted by creator
You are mistaken from the first sentence! The purpose of anarchy is to dismantle unjust heirarchies, NOT to remove the existence of authority. It’s a common mistake, and one I used to make myself.
I don’t think anyone would disagree that capitalism’s competitive drive has in ways benefitted humanity, amd I’m grateful for those benefits. It’d be foolish to discard them. Howver, all one needs to do to see how it’s harming us more than helping, is to look at the weather.
‘Just make a new system’ is actually the point of most communist/socialist movements. Because the world is so defined by capitalism, communism right now basically just means ‘everything else’, but if you look at the history of communism in the world (which is as fascinating as it is heartbreaking) you can see that there is a huge variety in beliefs of how it should be instituted! Socialists, anarchists, tankies, environmentalists (yes, ecology is intend3d as that alternative system you suggest) all have to act as more or less the same movement because of the overwhelming success of capitalist propoganda
deleted by creator
If capitalism truly was a level playing field, free of inheritance and prejudice… I would certainly agree with you. But it too, is imperfect. I would encourage you to compare, sometime, the results of a country being permitted to attempt communism. Modern day Vietnam is a lovely place, for example.
Regardless! The fact that you seek socialism makes us Comrades, because I do too. I’m actually a pacifist! While I have pretty radical beliefs, I have peaceful hopes for achieving them. Which means a road back through democracy, into social democracy, and hopefully one day direct democracy. We both want the same thing, less greed. I’m happy to fight (metaphorically) side-by-side with anyone who has that same goal.
Not to defend capitalism (I would be more in favour of anarchism provided that certain conditions have to be met first), but I would say that communism only killed less because it is a newer ideology. It is only 150 years old, give or take, with it’s practical existence lasting for 76 years. If we are considering mercantilism as capitalism (both are still looking for maximising profits), then in over 300-400 hundred years it’s logical to say that capitalism killed more, by virtue of how long profit seeking has been part of human economic policies.
And since we are talking about economic policies, barring the death camps, practically speaking, if communism went for as long as capitalism has, it could catch up with the number on death tolls, considering that communist centralisation of agriculture and ignoring experts caused similarly human-induced famines. A lot of people kinda forgot about Lysenko and his deliberate sidelining of knowledge and experience of farmers and scientists, causing poor harvest and many people starving to death. And I probably don’t need to remind everyone what Mao’s war on sparrows caused on China’s agriculture. Moreover, even after Stalin’s death and Lysenko out of the picture, USSR-- and many Soviet satellite states-- have been on ration for many years. USSR struggled to up the agricultural production in spite of being a vast country with abundant fertile lands.
Those are both issues caused by issues that capitalism is subject to as well! Authoritarianism, stupidity and ignorance… Sadly, any working society must be capable of managing these issues. Statistically speaking, as far as the sources I’ve seen have showed me, capitalism tends to cause more death and suffering than communism. One needs only compare the state of Soviet countires before, after, and during the USSR to see that quite plainly represented.