• anus@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Let’s consider the counterfactual: is it possible that this was a calculated decision about a complex topic and that abdicating led to a more positive outcome than not?

    The subtext of this post seems to be: if only harris hadn’t ignored the Gaza problem! And I reject that as a premise

    By the way, let’s consider another counterfactual: is it possible that Harris (the sitting VP) was privy to more information about the conflict than voters were?

    • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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      5 months ago

      Occam’s razor still applies. Your alternative explanations require additional and sometimes obscure factors, whereas the direct experience of the Uncommitted folks (actual Democrats! With previous Democratic campaign experience!) already gives an explanation that hasn’t been shot down by Harris campaign insiders either.

        • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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          5 months ago

          For example, you’re assuming the Harris campaign knew something we don’t. That’s adding extra variables.

          • anus@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Cool I think that applies

            But let’s use the device as a tool for thought rather than an Oracle

            In doing so, let’s examine the counterfactual: do you think the Harris campaign likely was privy to knowledge that we are not and which isn’t shared? I absolutely do

    • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      If this is the case, they have to publish the polling data that led them to believe it. Otherwise there’s no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

      • anus@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        On what planet do you think that American politicians “have to” do anything? They regularly break the law. It’s a bicameral system and until you riot or DDD it won’t change.

        Also, your statement makes the assumption that the complexity lies solely in polling and voting, but politics is more complex than that. Israel is a nuclear power. For all we (civilians) know, they can be a regular destabilizing threat actor for the West, have damning blackmail that threatens the DNC, or has enough high powered offensive hacking actors that the US sees its alliance as more important than its ethics

        By the way, this entire system of incentives illustrates the complexity of politics in a way that ought to dismiss any kind of black-or-white argument about really any political topic, including the (in my limited opinion, valid) condemnation of Trump.

        • emeralddawn45@discuss.tchncs.de
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          5 months ago

          “Maybe the Democrats weren’t bought off by Israel, maybe they were being blackmailed. Wouldn’t that be better? Or wait, maybe they just really like having access to Israeli spyware and hackers, and consider that more important than not murdering women and children! This is a complex issue and there’s lots of possible reasons that you may not be privy to that the Dems could have sold their souls and the future of the american people for!”

          • anus@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            I think you’re trying to mock me but in fact this is exactly what I’m saying

            I am very notably not defending Harris but lemmings have spent too much time on xitter to remember what critical discourse looks like

            • emeralddawn45@discuss.tchncs.de
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              5 months ago

              How are any of those things better or worthy of support? Those are all still completely ghoulish reasons to support a genocide. Youre presumably worried about russian interference with trump, but youre cool with the Israelis blackmailing kamala? We’re just supposed to shrug that off and say “oh she didnt have any choice”?

              • anus@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                I actually don’t really understand what you’re arguing about. I saved this and read it a few times but I don’t understand your question