A recent event led me to fact check something that I thought must be untrue, which is that Ukraine conscripts people into the military against their will, including making those people that had previously fulfilled their obligations return to the battlefield.

Moreso, when browsing X recently I saw bunch of videos being posted of what claimed were police forcing people into vans to go fight in Ukraine. The police were beating these people in the process. Now, it is possible that some of this content is propaganda, but I did want to find out if Ukraine forces conscription.

It appears that it is true:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/lacking-manpower-ukraine-resorts-to-harsh-means-to-force-draft-dodgers-into-combat

I am very much against conscription. I still support Ukraine’s independence, but the fact that they are forcing people to fight through beatings, arrests, etc. is sickening to me and makes me lose respect for Zelensky. According to an estimate by Ukrainian commanders, 50% to 70% of Ukrainian conscripts are killed or wounded in their first few days in combat on some areas of the front.

What are others thoughts on this?

  • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world
    1·
    7 days ago

    It is highly unpopular here to criticize Ukraine, and people kinda have good reasons for it, with all the far-right/trolls/tankies praising Russia and undermining Ukraine support.

    Still, and though I support Ukrainians in a war made by Russia, conscription (it’s always forced btw) is something I can’t get over with, it goes against liberty, equality, solidarity, everything i believe in. Fuck armies, anywhere, anywhen, anyhow. It does not mean that they should be unfunded/unsupported/fought against, just that we have to remember that they are bad to the core, and that even when necessary, they should not get any glory, any power or any reward.

    “Despise the infamous glory of laurel-bearing heroes, all assassins and pirates who terrorized the whole world”. - La Paysanne, Gaston Couté

    Anyway, i hope for peace in Ukraine, that they will get their previous frontiers, and that violences will soon come to an end, so that forced soldiers on both sides and Ukrainian civilians can escape this hell.

      • jeffw@lemmy.world
        0·
        8 days ago

        Mostly die? Maybe a quarter of Ukranian troops have become casualties. Deaths are maybe 1/4th of the casualties

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          01·
          8 days ago

          Conscripts don’t die at the same rate as volunteers. There’s testimony of commanders demanding bribes from soldiers to not be sent to the front.

          Conscripts die in droves. I guess I can’t say, for sure, that they mostly die, but their survival sure doesn’t seem to matter.

          • jeffw@lemmy.world
            0·
            8 days ago

            There have been over a million conscripts in Ukraine afaik. They haven’t even hit 50k deaths TOTAL (including civilians might make it just above that).

            Most? Stop with the disinformation. It would be one thing if the number was close but it isn’t.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
              01·
              8 days ago

              I’m pretty sure we don’t actually know the number of deaths, but also, I’m not trying to argue that they actually do die at a rate of 50% and you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. My point is that the survival of conscripts doesn’t matter and so the question becomes “whose survival matters?” Like I said, I can’t say for sure that they mostly die. But they sure as fuck die.

              • tomi000@lemmy.world
                0·
                8 days ago

                What are you basing the statement that their survival doesnt matter on? They are soldiers that are inevitably needed in a war, but the countries survival depends on their success in the war which is kind of equivalent to the survival of as many of them as possible.
                To me it seems Ukraine can choose between not having enough troops and inevitably losing the war and their country, or sending in conscripts (of which a certain percentage will die) and having a chance of fighting back.
                It does seem cruel that some are forced to die (or risk dying) for the survival of the masses, but would it be better if all citizens were forced equally, women and children included? What would be the alternative? Relying on volunteers alone doesnt seem enough, so should they abandon their country?

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
                  01·
                  7 days ago

                  They don’t want to die and are being marched to their deaths? They’re conscripts.

                  If people want to abandon the country, fucking let them.