Back when we were a real civilization, we didn’t try to find matches by looking at someone’s photograph, we would have considered that creepy and stupid.
Why are so many people doing an act that is objectively creepy, stupid and most users hate the entire experience? I haven’t met a single fucking person who enjoys tinder or online matchmaking in general. None. Not men, not women.
GO THE FUCK OUTSIDE. (edit: and talk to people. I can’t believe I have to add this detail, you cannot just literally walk around outdoors and expect something to happen, I’m just saying get off the internet, stop fucking scrolling and reading other people’s thoughts, it’s not helping you, strike up conversations and learn to get over yourself. You’re alone because your head is rammed so far up your own ass you can’t breath. DO NOT GO HIT ON RANDOM PEOPLE YOU DUMB FUCKS, SERIOUSLY “GO OUTSIDE” IS A METAPHOR FOR GETTING A REAL LIFE OFF THE INTERNET.)
This is distorting all your perceptions of what “attractive” even means. Last schlub I saw whining about this was just a normal-ass dude like my neighbor who has a wife and kids. All this talk about “attractiveness” makes no consideration for how humans actually feel about each other when they get to know each other.
“But it’s not that simple! The rest of the world is changed! You can’t just go talk to people! This is a oversimplification of a complex problem! REEEE!”
Bull. Shit. You tried like once or twice and people didn’t warm up to you and you felt ashamed. Or some dumb teenager broke your heart. That experience was supposed to teach you to try a different way, not teach you to give up. Shame is useless, it’s often a sign of having your head too far up your own ass. There are billions of people on Earth living the way we’ve lived for literal centuries. If you met some people you don’t match with, try several more. Even if you meet a million people, you’re still meeting 0.0125% percent of the population. Seriously, make EFFORT.
You are not a victim in this. Shed that automatic reflex to lash out at anyone who makes you feel accountability and you just might make it.
That’s part of it, but missing third places are as much a symptom as a cause.
Because tell me, if you walked outside and your neighborhood was restructured and there were bars and a riverwalk and cafes and old dudes with funny hats painting scenes, would that actually help the huge swath of people who have never grown up in places where you go outside and know everyone?
Third places are more than places they’re community connection areas, and yah it can certainly help if the physical locations are there, but the big ingredient that makes it work is that people who live around these places have a history already of going out to meet friends, coworkers, family, casual acquaintances you value the opinion of, and so on. You never ran down to Horace’s shop when you were 9 years old with a $5 to buy milk for your mom, and it was okay because you knew Horace, everyone in the area knows each other, and people looked out for each other.
We’re missing some deeply fundamental things in the modern world, particularly in the USA and dense urban areas. A huge one is learning to just talk to other people without shame or fear… a LOT of our space and life would become designed around this kind of life if we actually valued it. We are falling for the comfort trappings of suburban/apartment hell where you can see any virtual world from your flat screen and VR goggles and talk to an AI who will order you dinner without having to talk to anyone.
When exactly was that “real civilization”? When people were being arranged into marriages? Or when people would put ads into newspapers to find love? Or when dating shows started on TV? The next step after TV was pretty much Tinder. We have never been above using “creepy and stupid” options.
I don’t get the hate dating apps get. It’s a tool like every other, it helps you meet people outside of your regular circle. It’s not ideal because it’s next to impossible to everything you are into a short profile but it’s better than the solutions we came up before. The issue is that people don’t know how to use Tinder. Most people have no idea what their profile should look like, they put too much importance on any kind of a match and then they try too hard to get anywhere. Tinder match is the real world equivalent of locking your eyes someone on the street or a bar or a cafe or whatever. Just because that happened doesn’t mean anything more will happen. You don’t run after everyone who looks at you begging them to date you. So why do that on Tinder?
Millenial here. Never used online dating. Never used arranged marriages. Never used newspapers.
Dated a bunch. Just met and befriended a lot of people through shared areas of interest. Indoor soccer mixed league / gardening group / dog park / dog events at a local shop.
I also wasn’t creepy and bothered people with trying to get a relationship from these events. Just a chatty comical person. And with regular attendance - bumped into similar people over time and eventually did more personal shit with them and felt out why.
Online dating sort of (to me) turns the act of dating into a hobby or even a profession? and then people land these relationships where they expect something out of the other person. “You need a perfect resume with good line spacing and indentation, if you want connection!”
When I just pursued my hobbies and enjoyment areas and bumped into people who mutually enjoyed those things and would just talk about those things. Like at most seek connection to the things you love and do them with people you like. And then build on those connections. That’s what people really want when they log into profiles.
Note I don’t have any social media other than Lemmy. Haha.
I didn’t say dating doesn’t work. I also dated a bunch from my regular circle but eventually decided to switch to Tinder because I didn’t want intimate relations ruining my friends groups. Or at the very least I didn’t want to be the whose intimate relations would ruin friendships. That was my reason to go to Tinder.
And with my experience on Tinder what I did say was that Tinder is not some creepy or stupid way to go about dating. You don’t need to turn it into some kind a hobby or a profession. You don’t need to start a relationship (in it’s most general meaning) with some kind of expectations of intimacy or whatever. You don’t need a perfectly made profile. Those are the assumptions people have when they don’t understand Tinder. It’s a tool to meet people outside of your regular circle. You’re building this tool and the followup date to be bigger than it needs to be and of course it’s going to look creepy and stupid, you’re making it creepy and stupid. Here’s how I used Tinder.
I put minimum effort into swiping. I didn’t spend any time analyzing some images or bios or anything like that, if there was anything that remotely piqued my interest I would swipe right. If there was a match then texting was pretty much a vibe check, because at that point there was still nothing tangible and thus also no reason to put in a lot of effort. If they’re cool I would offer to go out, have a coffee or a walk in the park or anything neutral that still gives us the space to have a chat and figure out who we’re really meeting. A meeting is still not a commitment so I didn’t treat is as such. If they ghosted they ghosted and I’d just do something else. When we actually met I didn’t treat them like some kind of a checklist of my expectations for them. In fact I had no expectations for them. I had am idea of who I’m looking for but I’d also have to match who they’re looking for to actually have a match between us, so no reason to expect anything at that point. And the date would be just chatting and learning who they are and I made a lot of friends that way because there wasn’t anything romantic there but they were cool people.
I don’t think there’s anything particularly creepy or stupid about that. The first part seems creepy but that’s just how the tool works. If someone gave you a list of random 100 people and told you to figure out how who you’d want to meet you’d probably do the exact same thing because going in-depth with 100 people before you’ve even met them is creepy as nobody would (nor should) put in that much effort.
Yeah I will say I was lucky in my mid twenties in what was available to access around me / my town. I’m now 35 and other than a dog shop that has events where I meet a bunch of people with dogs - I don’t have a lot of the same overlaps but am happily married so it wasn’t the goal on where to settle (more what school do we want etc.)
I’m just outside of the NYC area and so can find some weird unique thing with a quick train ride attached.
If you play sports and enjoy training 5k-10k-half marathon groups are a great add to meet like minded people that may have a more favorable split haha. Doesn’t hurt to get the cardio up. But again I would ask - what other interests do you have that are unexplored - that could be interesting to chase. It will be super uncomfortable to take a stab at it. But it’s a win if you do it. A win win if you meet folks while doing it.
Yes, literally those are our only options here, dark-ages arranged slavery or “The Love Connection” or dating apps everyone (but you!) hate with a passion. That’s really spot-on. Perfect, exactly the smart, nuanced responses I’m always delighted to have to interact with.
The “people don’t know how to use Tinder” is fine, great, fucking whatever. In the end all you’re doing is trying to replicate the way people have been meeting and getting to know each other for eons. If it works for you, FINE GO USE IT. I’m obviously not talking to the minority who enjoy the effort of trying to replicate natural human behavior on a glowing screen.
I’m very obviously talking to the people it doesn’t work for or who have the same problems online as they do in real life. The huge fucking difference here is with dating apps, when you’re done swiping that’s it, you don’t learn anything, you don’t figure out how to be a better conversation partner, you don’t self-reflect in any healthy way and that’s how most people use it. It’s gestures into the darkness.
I’m sorry. I forgot I’m talking to a big alpha male who can only express themselves in an aggressive tone. My bad. And I’m sure your advice of “Just get over yourself and get out there you fucking pussy” is unbelievably useful to all those people who struggle to date. They definitely couldn’t have come up with that on their own. And of course fuck online dating because big stonk alpha no likey thing they no understand.
Buy a Delorean, find doc Brown and flux capacitor yourself back to the 80s where you belong.
I’m sorry I intimidated you with my text on a screen and made you think I’m big and scary because I used harsh language.
And sorry, to those struggling with socializing, there’s no shortcut. If you are that bad off, go get therapy, it works wonders. Otherwise, we all struggled at some point before we started learning it’s okay to be yourself even if it causes you to intimidate people on the internet.
Reminder: the internet didn’t always exist, people got along just fine. People have always struggled with socializing and then forcing themselves to get through their obstacles. The modern internet age disincentivizes you from going out and being a more social person who keeps learning. There are millions of kids out there giving up on life because they embarrassed themselves ONE time with someone, then got all kinds of support from other shut-ins. Many people do this on some level and that’s what we should be pushing against, even if it hurts some people’s feelings.
You being unnecessarily aggressive does not intimidate me. I simply didn’t appreciate the tone because when you act that way all you’re showing is that you can’t have a civil discussion.
And I agree that there are no shortcuts to socializing. But this “go out there and date” advice isn’t going to help anyone. It’s like telling someone living their car “just build a house”. It does nothing in regards to helping them figure out how to do that.
And I’m not sure what you’re even complaining about regarding dating apps. The date isn’t happening in the app. In the end they still have to go out there and date, the dating app simply helps them get to that step. The dating app replaces only the “asking someone out” step, not the actual date itself. It takes a small step out of the whole dating process and you’re acting like that’s the entire problem. At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter if you physically asked someone out or if you matched on Tinder and asked them out, because when it comes to the actual date you still have to put yourself out there. Unless the online dating has warped into something completely different within the last 10 years they still need to learn how to have a conversation, how to pick up cues and find the confidence to make a move. The only thing online dating changes is that people don’t need to take a rejection straight to their face and get embarrassed into never trying again.
The dating app replaces only the “asking someone out” step, not the actual date itself.
I want to nitpick on this, because I’m told a lot of people use these apps, match, and then never actually ask the other person out. They then are sometimes puzzled why they’re not going on dates.
The only thing online dating changes is that people don’t need to take a rejection straight to their face and get embarrassed into never trying again.
It also helps filter out “oh, she doesn’t date men”, “wow, he’s anti-vax”, “he doesn’t want kids, ever, and i do” kind of stuff. At least, when the app is working and not fully enshittified. That stuff is valuable.
I want to nitpick on this, because I’m told a lot of people use these apps, match, and then never actually ask the other person out. They then are sometimes puzzled why they’re not going on dates.
I’m not sure if you’re implying they’re the same person, as in they won’t ask anyone out and then wonder why nobody goes out with them? Because that I can’t really explain. I guess maybe they’re shy or they think the other person should be asking them out, but if you’re going to leave it solely to chance then you have to accept that there’s a chance you never get asked out. But if someone is thinks they’re trying but it just doesn’t happen, then that needs a more deeper dive into why it wouldn’t happen. From my experience most of the time the people I didn’t go out with were people who were closed off, so my most general advice in that case would be to try to be more open. Nobody wants to pry answers out of you. Talk about yourself, or if you don’t like talking about yourself be more proactive in getting to know the other person. Be interested in them and let them be interested in you.
It also helps filter out “oh, she doesn’t date men”, “wow, he’s anti-vax”, “he doesn’t want kids, ever, and i do” kind of stuff. At least, when the app is working and not fully enshittified. That stuff is valuable.
That as well. Some people put in their bios clear no-nos and I think that’s great.
I’m not sure if you’re implying they’re the same person, as in they won’t ask anyone out and then wonder why nobody goes out with them? Because that I can’t really explain
Yes indeed. There was a guy I was talking to a while ago who said he never got any dates from the apps. I wanted to be helpful, so I asked him to describe his process and what happened.
He said he’d match (good), and then send them a nice personal message (great), they’d chat on the app (good) for a couple weeks (what) and then they’d stop responding.
He never asked them out but he’d keep talking to them, and seemed confused why he wasn’t having dates. I’m not exactly sure why- maybe he was waiting for the perfect moment that never came. I think this is somewhat common because I’ve seen a lot of profiles that say “not looking for a pen pal. Ask me out!”
I told the specific guy I was talking to I recommend asking people out after like one exchange and you’ve cleared your dealbreakers, and I hope that helped him.
my most general advice in that case would be to try to be more open. Nobody wants to pry answers out of you.
This is good advice. A very common blunder I see is people dead-ending conversations. Like someone will be like “oh my gosh I love your spaceslug T-shirt. Did you ever see them play live?” and they respond with “no [end of message]”. Like, what. How is the other person supposed to interpret that?
If it was in person I’d be like “oh ok this person doesn’t want to talk” but on an app, after we matched? Why respond at all? Just unmatch if you’re not interested, or respond later when you can whole-ass the response.
Back when we were a real civilization, we didn’t try to find matches by looking at someone’s photograph, we would have considered that creepy and stupid.
My parents met by getting introduced to each other in what’s effectively an arranged marriage. Well, technically, it was not forced per se, but the village elders and/or their parents pressured it, they show photos, then they were pressured to agree to an arranged meeting, y’all talk to each other. The elders verify your 时辰八字 (some astrology stuff) to verify “compatibility”. Then if y’all like each other, the marriage happens. From what my mother told me, they could refuse, but then their parents / village elders just keep trying to find a new partner for you. Marriage is an expectation. 🤷♂️
This was like 1990’s, Guangdong Province, People’s Republic of China.
My parents are still trying to do arranged arranged marriage for my older brother (we live in the USA now) because my mother is afraid he wouldn’t find a spouse. He doesn’t seem to care about marriage either.
As for how my parents relationships are, I don’t think they really “love” each other, they kinda just put up with each other “for the kids”. When they do get in arguments, it can be quite terrifying, especially when I was still in K-12 school.
There’s like this expectation for you to get married early and have kids. (My older brother is many years older then me, and he’s is approaching 30 years old)
My reaction to this shit, is: I don’t wanna get married lol. I hate the idea of living with another human being. I never have any desires for romantic relationships. I wanna live and die alone. (And especially, fuck arranged marriages, ain’t doing that shit, rather be single than miserable. Not having one of the most important choices be dictated by parents.)
(Btw, I’m not even supposed to be born. My mother disobeyed the One Child Policy and gave birth to me)
Rejection is painful precisely because genuine connections are so desirable. The tension, the drama, and the luck-of-the-draw of dating is both what makes it miserable and exciting. Nice to see other interesting people and to be seen as interesting to others.
Happy for you and everyone else who had it worked out. But that’s not the case for many.
If I knew then what I know now, I’d not have picked the man who fathered my kids. I love those kids, but… Different father would make different kids. But maybe their lives would be better.
Possibly no man, no kids would have been better all in all.
“Btw, I’m not even supposed to be born. My mother disobeyed the One Child Policy and gave birth to me”
.
“especially, fuck arranged marriages, ain’t doing that shit, rather be single than miserable. Not having one of the most important choices be dictated by parents”
Right on, dude 🤘 Your entire existence is a rebellion so you might as well go the whole hog and live your way
Back when we were a real civilization, we didn’t try to find matches by looking at someone’s photograph, we would have considered that creepy and stupid.
That’s not true at all. Video, photography, and even paintings, have been used as early stages of courtship going back centuries. Matchmaking professionals have historically made heavy use of visual mediums to entice prospective partners into meeting. I remember dating services in the 1980s that would use video introductions and Polaroid photos to get people to meet one another. Photograph catalogues of singles ready to mingle in Matrimonial Ads of the 19th century. Oil paintings and ink sketches were commonly traded people prospective partners before that. Whatever you might say of the method, it isn’t new.
GO THE FUCK OUTSIDE.
I’ll never understand the folks who think going to a service specifically dedicated to meeting other single people and courting them is weirder than approaching random people and hitting on them in public.
I agreed with this until I started doing lots of “go outside” stuff and realized there was a bit of nuance. Decided pretty quickly that I’d keep the dating separate from sports/activities because I really enjoy them and things get weird if you treat it like a dating pool.
Now I somehow have to work up the courage to talk to someone without a contrived activity bringing us together.
Now I somehow have to work up the courage to talk to someone without a contrived activity bringing us together.
If the activity feels contrived, it’s probably the wrong fit. Yes, there is a deep realm of nuance to the “go outside” trope but it is real, at least in this case it’s being spoken from a place of experience. (Try growing up for the first couple decades of your life in a literal cult compound with no phone, an hour from the nearest gas station.)
It feels really weird the first time you strike up a conversation with a stranger for “no reason” but you do get over it. In fact, people don’t view you the way you’re imagining, as long as you’re not pushy or trying to be some kind of douche to compensate for insecurity, you will just be seen as someone with character and friendliness.
Look, I will pass on one HUGE tip that will make you seem like “the guy” which is to learn to be hospitable. Care about if the people around you are comfortable, not like you want to get them to like you, not in a fussing overbearing way, but like, imagine how you feel alone around strangers, and make that experience better for them. Men, women, whatever. Everyone wants someone to reach out and ask them how they’re doing and what they’re up to.
For someone you might have romantic interests in, don’t over-invest and always give them an out. Say hi, offer a complement (fashion choices or hair are better choices than intrinsic qualities like eyes or features.) and then you say “Well, nice to see you, I’m going to go get a slice of pizza/a fresh drink, would you like anything?” Or whatever people are doing there for fun. Or say “Cool, I have to catch a call in a few minutes, but it was great talking.”
AND THEN YOU LEAVE. Just go, don’t have expectations but also don’t literally run away and avoid people. You’re just introducing yourself, and you may never see them again, but if you’re doing this consistently, this is what people associate you with. Sooner or later someone will say “I’ll be at the thing by the place after this, I hear they serve good [STUFF] want to come try it?”
That one simple trick will take you further than any dating coaches or tricks. It’s just called being hospitable, giving people space but being present. Plant a seed, nurture it over time. You form friend groups like this, you become popular at parties and work functions, you make potential partners feel at ease as long as you’re consistent and keep a take-it-or-leave-it attitude.
The hospitable thing is true, kind of happens automatically if you’re new to activities. You’re often pretty bad so being nice is a good way to offer something back to the group while you’re learning.
There’s a language barrier where I live that makes relaxed chit-chat with strangers extremely difficult. At the moment I’m just not thinking about it, always seems like things work out if you’re in an environment where you’re meeting lots of people each week.
because people dont have social skills anymore. COVID really fucked a lot of people up, and when you see what happens to the people who even try to make an attempt, it really turns you off of doing anything, just ever in general. I dont have this problem cuz I kinda lucked out on social skills IRL, even if I suck at it online :p just celebrated my 3rd anniversary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3rmrml1oNs
I say this to everyone out there, this is a “buy the dip” opportunity time for people on a social level. Go adopt a group of poorly-socialized peers and just reinvent socializing from the ground up. No rules, no enforcement, wanna play retro games and get high like teens? How about everyone goes to the horse races even though nobody knows how? Just go buy a couch together, decide who gets it after with a game of chance.
This is how movements are made. I’m not even kidding, there are TONS of people out there of all walks of life who just want someone to show them how to “social” and are scared of doing something strange and being embarrassed. Everyone is in this deeply isolated headspace hoping someone throws a rope and offers a way out.
Be a way out. Worst that happens is half of them flame out, you still end up with some people in your life you can talk to and hang out with. If you’re single, maybe you will hit it off with one of them or someone they know, but if not, who cares. It’s still better than being alone.
No meaningful relationship I’ve ever had has come from an app, they’ve all been through connections I’ve made IRL. As frowned upon as it seems to be, I met my fiancée at an old job. I’m not what you would call conventionally attractive and find the whole online dating thing a bit awkward so IRL seems to be where I shine in that regard because my other qualities come through and not just my looks. At the other end of the spectrum, one of my sisters met her fiancée through an app and seems to have found several meaningful relationships before him through apps too.
I think that fighting the apps is a losing battle - as third spaces continue to disappear people have to meet somewhere. I think there’s room for them in the dating space. However I agree that as a society we need to tackle the toxic expectations they create, and we also need to remember that just like every other big tech platform, they make money from your engagement.
Back when we were a real civilization, we didn’t try to find matches by looking at someone’s photograph, we would have considered that creepy and stupid.
Why are so many people doing an act that is objectively creepy, stupid and most users hate the entire experience? I haven’t met a single fucking person who enjoys tinder or online matchmaking in general. None. Not men, not women.
GO THE FUCK OUTSIDE. (edit: and talk to people. I can’t believe I have to add this detail, you cannot just literally walk around outdoors and expect something to happen, I’m just saying get off the internet, stop fucking scrolling and reading other people’s thoughts, it’s not helping you, strike up conversations and learn to get over yourself. You’re alone because your head is rammed so far up your own ass you can’t breath. DO NOT GO HIT ON RANDOM PEOPLE YOU DUMB FUCKS, SERIOUSLY “GO OUTSIDE” IS A METAPHOR FOR GETTING A REAL LIFE OFF THE INTERNET.)
This is distorting all your perceptions of what “attractive” even means. Last schlub I saw whining about this was just a normal-ass dude like my neighbor who has a wife and kids. All this talk about “attractiveness” makes no consideration for how humans actually feel about each other when they get to know each other.
“But it’s not that simple! The rest of the world is changed! You can’t just go talk to people! This is a oversimplification of a complex problem! REEEE!”
Bull. Shit. You tried like once or twice and people didn’t warm up to you and you felt ashamed. Or some dumb teenager broke your heart. That experience was supposed to teach you to try a different way, not teach you to give up. Shame is useless, it’s often a sign of having your head too far up your own ass. There are billions of people on Earth living the way we’ve lived for literal centuries. If you met some people you don’t match with, try several more. Even if you meet a million people, you’re still meeting 0.0125% percent of the population. Seriously, make EFFORT.
You are not a victim in this. Shed that automatic reflex to lash out at anyone who makes you feel accountability and you just might make it.
The death of third places.
Ahh I see you’d like to exist, that’ll be 10 dollars please.
That’s part of it, but missing third places are as much a symptom as a cause.
Because tell me, if you walked outside and your neighborhood was restructured and there were bars and a riverwalk and cafes and old dudes with funny hats painting scenes, would that actually help the huge swath of people who have never grown up in places where you go outside and know everyone?
Third places are more than places they’re community connection areas, and yah it can certainly help if the physical locations are there, but the big ingredient that makes it work is that people who live around these places have a history already of going out to meet friends, coworkers, family, casual acquaintances you value the opinion of, and so on. You never ran down to Horace’s shop when you were 9 years old with a $5 to buy milk for your mom, and it was okay because you knew Horace, everyone in the area knows each other, and people looked out for each other.
We’re missing some deeply fundamental things in the modern world, particularly in the USA and dense urban areas. A huge one is learning to just talk to other people without shame or fear… a LOT of our space and life would become designed around this kind of life if we actually valued it. We are falling for the comfort trappings of suburban/apartment hell where you can see any virtual world from your flat screen and VR goggles and talk to an AI who will order you dinner without having to talk to anyone.
When exactly was that “real civilization”? When people were being arranged into marriages? Or when people would put ads into newspapers to find love? Or when dating shows started on TV? The next step after TV was pretty much Tinder. We have never been above using “creepy and stupid” options.
I don’t get the hate dating apps get. It’s a tool like every other, it helps you meet people outside of your regular circle. It’s not ideal because it’s next to impossible to everything you are into a short profile but it’s better than the solutions we came up before. The issue is that people don’t know how to use Tinder. Most people have no idea what their profile should look like, they put too much importance on any kind of a match and then they try too hard to get anywhere. Tinder match is the real world equivalent of locking your eyes someone on the street or a bar or a cafe or whatever. Just because that happened doesn’t mean anything more will happen. You don’t run after everyone who looks at you begging them to date you. So why do that on Tinder?
Millenial here. Never used online dating. Never used arranged marriages. Never used newspapers.
Dated a bunch. Just met and befriended a lot of people through shared areas of interest. Indoor soccer mixed league / gardening group / dog park / dog events at a local shop.
I also wasn’t creepy and bothered people with trying to get a relationship from these events. Just a chatty comical person. And with regular attendance - bumped into similar people over time and eventually did more personal shit with them and felt out why.
Online dating sort of (to me) turns the act of dating into a hobby or even a profession? and then people land these relationships where they expect something out of the other person. “You need a perfect resume with good line spacing and indentation, if you want connection!”
When I just pursued my hobbies and enjoyment areas and bumped into people who mutually enjoyed those things and would just talk about those things. Like at most seek connection to the things you love and do them with people you like. And then build on those connections. That’s what people really want when they log into profiles.
Note I don’t have any social media other than Lemmy. Haha.
I didn’t say dating doesn’t work. I also dated a bunch from my regular circle but eventually decided to switch to Tinder because I didn’t want intimate relations ruining my friends groups. Or at the very least I didn’t want to be the whose intimate relations would ruin friendships. That was my reason to go to Tinder.
And with my experience on Tinder what I did say was that Tinder is not some creepy or stupid way to go about dating. You don’t need to turn it into some kind a hobby or a profession. You don’t need to start a relationship (in it’s most general meaning) with some kind of expectations of intimacy or whatever. You don’t need a perfectly made profile. Those are the assumptions people have when they don’t understand Tinder. It’s a tool to meet people outside of your regular circle. You’re building this tool and the followup date to be bigger than it needs to be and of course it’s going to look creepy and stupid, you’re making it creepy and stupid. Here’s how I used Tinder.
I put minimum effort into swiping. I didn’t spend any time analyzing some images or bios or anything like that, if there was anything that remotely piqued my interest I would swipe right. If there was a match then texting was pretty much a vibe check, because at that point there was still nothing tangible and thus also no reason to put in a lot of effort. If they’re cool I would offer to go out, have a coffee or a walk in the park or anything neutral that still gives us the space to have a chat and figure out who we’re really meeting. A meeting is still not a commitment so I didn’t treat is as such. If they ghosted they ghosted and I’d just do something else. When we actually met I didn’t treat them like some kind of a checklist of my expectations for them. In fact I had no expectations for them. I had am idea of who I’m looking for but I’d also have to match who they’re looking for to actually have a match between us, so no reason to expect anything at that point. And the date would be just chatting and learning who they are and I made a lot of friends that way because there wasn’t anything romantic there but they were cool people.
I don’t think there’s anything particularly creepy or stupid about that. The first part seems creepy but that’s just how the tool works. If someone gave you a list of random 100 people and told you to figure out how who you’d want to meet you’d probably do the exact same thing because going in-depth with 100 people before you’ve even met them is creepy as nobody would (nor should) put in that much effort.
Ha my friend group got blown up recently from exactly the situation you described. Sucks.
The problem I have, is both my work and hobbies/sports are very male dominated, so there’s just not that many opportunities to meet someone.
Yeah I will say I was lucky in my mid twenties in what was available to access around me / my town. I’m now 35 and other than a dog shop that has events where I meet a bunch of people with dogs - I don’t have a lot of the same overlaps but am happily married so it wasn’t the goal on where to settle (more what school do we want etc.)
I’m just outside of the NYC area and so can find some weird unique thing with a quick train ride attached.
If you play sports and enjoy training 5k-10k-half marathon groups are a great add to meet like minded people that may have a more favorable split haha. Doesn’t hurt to get the cardio up. But again I would ask - what other interests do you have that are unexplored - that could be interesting to chase. It will be super uncomfortable to take a stab at it. But it’s a win if you do it. A win win if you meet folks while doing it.
Yes, literally those are our only options here, dark-ages arranged slavery or “The Love Connection” or dating apps everyone (but you!) hate with a passion. That’s really spot-on. Perfect, exactly the smart, nuanced responses I’m always delighted to have to interact with.
The “people don’t know how to use Tinder” is fine, great, fucking whatever. In the end all you’re doing is trying to replicate the way people have been meeting and getting to know each other for eons. If it works for you, FINE GO USE IT. I’m obviously not talking to the minority who enjoy the effort of trying to replicate natural human behavior on a glowing screen.
I’m very obviously talking to the people it doesn’t work for or who have the same problems online as they do in real life. The huge fucking difference here is with dating apps, when you’re done swiping that’s it, you don’t learn anything, you don’t figure out how to be a better conversation partner, you don’t self-reflect in any healthy way and that’s how most people use it. It’s gestures into the darkness.
I’m sorry. I forgot I’m talking to a big alpha male who can only express themselves in an aggressive tone. My bad. And I’m sure your advice of “Just get over yourself and get out there you fucking pussy” is unbelievably useful to all those people who struggle to date. They definitely couldn’t have come up with that on their own. And of course fuck online dating because big stonk alpha no likey thing they no understand.
Buy a Delorean, find doc Brown and flux capacitor yourself back to the 80s where you belong.
I’m sorry I intimidated you with my text on a screen and made you think I’m big and scary because I used harsh language.
And sorry, to those struggling with socializing, there’s no shortcut. If you are that bad off, go get therapy, it works wonders. Otherwise, we all struggled at some point before we started learning it’s okay to be yourself even if it causes you to intimidate people on the internet.
Reminder: the internet didn’t always exist, people got along just fine. People have always struggled with socializing and then forcing themselves to get through their obstacles. The modern internet age disincentivizes you from going out and being a more social person who keeps learning. There are millions of kids out there giving up on life because they embarrassed themselves ONE time with someone, then got all kinds of support from other shut-ins. Many people do this on some level and that’s what we should be pushing against, even if it hurts some people’s feelings.
You being unnecessarily aggressive does not intimidate me. I simply didn’t appreciate the tone because when you act that way all you’re showing is that you can’t have a civil discussion.
And I agree that there are no shortcuts to socializing. But this “go out there and date” advice isn’t going to help anyone. It’s like telling someone living their car “just build a house”. It does nothing in regards to helping them figure out how to do that.
And I’m not sure what you’re even complaining about regarding dating apps. The date isn’t happening in the app. In the end they still have to go out there and date, the dating app simply helps them get to that step. The dating app replaces only the “asking someone out” step, not the actual date itself. It takes a small step out of the whole dating process and you’re acting like that’s the entire problem. At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter if you physically asked someone out or if you matched on Tinder and asked them out, because when it comes to the actual date you still have to put yourself out there. Unless the online dating has warped into something completely different within the last 10 years they still need to learn how to have a conversation, how to pick up cues and find the confidence to make a move. The only thing online dating changes is that people don’t need to take a rejection straight to their face and get embarrassed into never trying again.
I want to nitpick on this, because I’m told a lot of people use these apps, match, and then never actually ask the other person out. They then are sometimes puzzled why they’re not going on dates.
It also helps filter out “oh, she doesn’t date men”, “wow, he’s anti-vax”, “he doesn’t want kids, ever, and i do” kind of stuff. At least, when the app is working and not fully enshittified. That stuff is valuable.
Sorry for the nitpicks. Good post though, thanks.
I’m not sure if you’re implying they’re the same person, as in they won’t ask anyone out and then wonder why nobody goes out with them? Because that I can’t really explain. I guess maybe they’re shy or they think the other person should be asking them out, but if you’re going to leave it solely to chance then you have to accept that there’s a chance you never get asked out. But if someone is thinks they’re trying but it just doesn’t happen, then that needs a more deeper dive into why it wouldn’t happen. From my experience most of the time the people I didn’t go out with were people who were closed off, so my most general advice in that case would be to try to be more open. Nobody wants to pry answers out of you. Talk about yourself, or if you don’t like talking about yourself be more proactive in getting to know the other person. Be interested in them and let them be interested in you.
That as well. Some people put in their bios clear no-nos and I think that’s great.
Yes indeed. There was a guy I was talking to a while ago who said he never got any dates from the apps. I wanted to be helpful, so I asked him to describe his process and what happened.
He said he’d match (good), and then send them a nice personal message (great), they’d chat on the app (good) for a couple weeks (what) and then they’d stop responding.
He never asked them out but he’d keep talking to them, and seemed confused why he wasn’t having dates. I’m not exactly sure why- maybe he was waiting for the perfect moment that never came. I think this is somewhat common because I’ve seen a lot of profiles that say “not looking for a pen pal. Ask me out!”
I told the specific guy I was talking to I recommend asking people out after like one exchange and you’ve cleared your dealbreakers, and I hope that helped him.
This is good advice. A very common blunder I see is people dead-ending conversations. Like someone will be like “oh my gosh I love your spaceslug T-shirt. Did you ever see them play live?” and they respond with “no [end of message]”. Like, what. How is the other person supposed to interpret that?
If it was in person I’d be like “oh ok this person doesn’t want to talk” but on an app, after we matched? Why respond at all? Just unmatch if you’re not interested, or respond later when you can whole-ass the response.
My parents met by getting introduced to each other in what’s effectively an arranged marriage. Well, technically, it was not forced per se, but the village elders and/or their parents pressured it, they show photos, then they were pressured to agree to an arranged meeting, y’all talk to each other. The elders verify your 时辰八字 (some astrology stuff) to verify “compatibility”. Then if y’all like each other, the marriage happens. From what my mother told me, they could refuse, but then their parents / village elders just keep trying to find a new partner for you. Marriage is an expectation. 🤷♂️
This was like 1990’s, Guangdong Province, People’s Republic of China.
My parents are still trying to do arranged arranged marriage for my older brother (we live in the USA now) because my mother is afraid he wouldn’t find a spouse. He doesn’t seem to care about marriage either.
As for how my parents relationships are, I don’t think they really “love” each other, they kinda just put up with each other “for the kids”. When they do get in arguments, it can be quite terrifying, especially when I was still in K-12 school.
There’s like this expectation for you to get married early and have kids. (My older brother is many years older then me, and he’s is approaching 30 years old)
My reaction to this shit, is: I don’t wanna get married lol. I hate the idea of living with another human being. I never have any desires for romantic relationships. I wanna live and die alone. (And especially, fuck arranged marriages, ain’t doing that shit, rather be single than miserable. Not having one of the most important choices be dictated by parents.)
(Btw, I’m not even supposed to be born. My mother disobeyed the One Child Policy and gave birth to me)
As someone who is living in a non-arranged marriage, if it turns out well, a relationship can be quite magical.
It just sucks how dating looks like today, but if it works out, it is worth all of the shit.
Rejection is painful precisely because genuine connections are so desirable. The tension, the drama, and the luck-of-the-draw of dating is both what makes it miserable and exciting. Nice to see other interesting people and to be seen as interesting to others.
Happy for you and everyone else who had it worked out. But that’s not the case for many.
If I knew then what I know now, I’d not have picked the man who fathered my kids. I love those kids, but… Different father would make different kids. But maybe their lives would be better.
Possibly no man, no kids would have been better all in all.
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Right on, dude 🤘 Your entire existence is a rebellion so you might as well go the whole hog and live your way
That’s not true at all. Video, photography, and even paintings, have been used as early stages of courtship going back centuries. Matchmaking professionals have historically made heavy use of visual mediums to entice prospective partners into meeting. I remember dating services in the 1980s that would use video introductions and Polaroid photos to get people to meet one another. Photograph catalogues of singles ready to mingle in Matrimonial Ads of the 19th century. Oil paintings and ink sketches were commonly traded people prospective partners before that. Whatever you might say of the method, it isn’t new.
I’ll never understand the folks who think going to a service specifically dedicated to meeting other single people and courting them is weirder than approaching random people and hitting on them in public.
TBF that is pretty weird, where exactly did I say do that?
You just used to make funny videos instead: https://youtu.be/GGdQCicz4Ro
I agreed with this until I started doing lots of “go outside” stuff and realized there was a bit of nuance. Decided pretty quickly that I’d keep the dating separate from sports/activities because I really enjoy them and things get weird if you treat it like a dating pool. Now I somehow have to work up the courage to talk to someone without a contrived activity bringing us together.
If the activity feels contrived, it’s probably the wrong fit. Yes, there is a deep realm of nuance to the “go outside” trope but it is real, at least in this case it’s being spoken from a place of experience. (Try growing up for the first couple decades of your life in a literal cult compound with no phone, an hour from the nearest gas station.)
It feels really weird the first time you strike up a conversation with a stranger for “no reason” but you do get over it. In fact, people don’t view you the way you’re imagining, as long as you’re not pushy or trying to be some kind of douche to compensate for insecurity, you will just be seen as someone with character and friendliness.
Look, I will pass on one HUGE tip that will make you seem like “the guy” which is to learn to be hospitable. Care about if the people around you are comfortable, not like you want to get them to like you, not in a fussing overbearing way, but like, imagine how you feel alone around strangers, and make that experience better for them. Men, women, whatever. Everyone wants someone to reach out and ask them how they’re doing and what they’re up to.
For someone you might have romantic interests in, don’t over-invest and always give them an out. Say hi, offer a complement (fashion choices or hair are better choices than intrinsic qualities like eyes or features.) and then you say “Well, nice to see you, I’m going to go get a slice of pizza/a fresh drink, would you like anything?” Or whatever people are doing there for fun. Or say “Cool, I have to catch a call in a few minutes, but it was great talking.”
AND THEN YOU LEAVE. Just go, don’t have expectations but also don’t literally run away and avoid people. You’re just introducing yourself, and you may never see them again, but if you’re doing this consistently, this is what people associate you with. Sooner or later someone will say “I’ll be at the thing by the place after this, I hear they serve good [STUFF] want to come try it?”
That one simple trick will take you further than any dating coaches or tricks. It’s just called being hospitable, giving people space but being present. Plant a seed, nurture it over time. You form friend groups like this, you become popular at parties and work functions, you make potential partners feel at ease as long as you’re consistent and keep a take-it-or-leave-it attitude.
The hospitable thing is true, kind of happens automatically if you’re new to activities. You’re often pretty bad so being nice is a good way to offer something back to the group while you’re learning. There’s a language barrier where I live that makes relaxed chit-chat with strangers extremely difficult. At the moment I’m just not thinking about it, always seems like things work out if you’re in an environment where you’re meeting lots of people each week.
because people dont have social skills anymore. COVID really fucked a lot of people up, and when you see what happens to the people who even try to make an attempt, it really turns you off of doing anything, just ever in general. I dont have this problem cuz I kinda lucked out on social skills IRL, even if I suck at it online :p just celebrated my 3rd anniversary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3rmrml1oNs
I say this to everyone out there, this is a “buy the dip” opportunity time for people on a social level. Go adopt a group of poorly-socialized peers and just reinvent socializing from the ground up. No rules, no enforcement, wanna play retro games and get high like teens? How about everyone goes to the horse races even though nobody knows how? Just go buy a couch together, decide who gets it after with a game of chance.
This is how movements are made. I’m not even kidding, there are TONS of people out there of all walks of life who just want someone to show them how to “social” and are scared of doing something strange and being embarrassed. Everyone is in this deeply isolated headspace hoping someone throws a rope and offers a way out.
Be a way out. Worst that happens is half of them flame out, you still end up with some people in your life you can talk to and hang out with. If you’re single, maybe you will hit it off with one of them or someone they know, but if not, who cares. It’s still better than being alone.
None of us get out of this alive.
Yup. Go out and invite people. You’ll be surprised at how many answer the metaphorical or literal call
I will state, well over half are likely to flame out without considerable effort. Hit rates aren’t that high
No meaningful relationship I’ve ever had has come from an app, they’ve all been through connections I’ve made IRL. As frowned upon as it seems to be, I met my fiancée at an old job. I’m not what you would call conventionally attractive and find the whole online dating thing a bit awkward so IRL seems to be where I shine in that regard because my other qualities come through and not just my looks. At the other end of the spectrum, one of my sisters met her fiancée through an app and seems to have found several meaningful relationships before him through apps too.
I think that fighting the apps is a losing battle - as third spaces continue to disappear people have to meet somewhere. I think there’s room for them in the dating space. However I agree that as a society we need to tackle the toxic expectations they create, and we also need to remember that just like every other big tech platform, they make money from your engagement.