This post is a reminder that Visa and Mastercard are two american companies and that every time you pay for something with your credit card you are most likely paying taxes to trump and his goons.
This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters and the cashless payment fanatics.
Reminder: Arguing and discussion is okay, but keep it civil and do not attack the person you are arguing with.
The real problem here is that the “alternative” is a lot country specific alternatives that have no leverage to command worldwide adoption.
This could only be addressed ultimately by EU federalization. Let’s see how much time until people and governments take to realize this.
In France there is the CB network.
A lot of cards are dual network CB/Visa or CB/MasterCard and the fees are much lower in the CB network so most POS are using it as well.
Does the same go for debit cards?
Digital Euro when?
I often paid with my cards (or my watch), but switched to cash until there is a legit european alternative. Most cryptocurrencies are pump and dump schemes
In Sweden we have Swish, which allows you to pay for stuff online without using any debit or credit card. I use it all the time, I cannot remember last time I paid online with card, unless it was from a foreign online shop/service.
However, it often isn’t available in grocery and retail stores. But it is often available in rural areas or small shops who don’t want to pay the fee for cards.
Also, Sweden is developing an e-krona, an electronic version of the Swedish currency. It should hopefully replace cards in all shops in the future.
Until then, using cash in grocery and retail stores is always possible. The problem is most swedes haven’t seen physical money in so long I am not certain they still know how to use it… 🤔
For Willys or Hemköp you can download the app and scan. Scan directly in the Hemköp app. Use scan&go on the Willys app
You actually can pay in quite a few retail shops using swish nowadays.
Also loads of stores don’t accept cash at all. Most big stores like grocery stores accept cash but not always all tills
Yeah, it is definitely getting more common. And cashless stores are also getting more common, which isn’t necessarily a desirable development :/
MobilePay in Finland and Denmark. I am not so sure the underlying payment infrastructure is US-free though.
This is a good point concerning Swish too, I have no idea.
So what should we use😂?
This is getting absurd
Depends on what’s available where you live. In Poland we have BLIK! I think a few other countries are starting to use it too. The way it works is that in your banking app you get a 6 digit code, and enter it in the terminal. Less convenient than tap-to-pay but writing that made me realize how spoiled I am, lol. It’s really convenient for online purchases though, no need to spend all that time writing card info and no risk of that info getting into the wrong hands.
Some things are harder to replace than others, and no one expects you to change everything anyway. I don’t know why it’s “too absurd”. If anything, our dependence on that makes them all the more important to use/develop alternatives for.
Yeah! It’s best to use the national network, if it exists in your country. Also, daily reminder that the EU is working towards the digital Euro.
This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters and the cashless payment fanatics.
I don’t really get this tbh…
The digital euro looks so promising, even if it’s a small thing. Ditching Visa and Mastercard would help reduce intermediates in the payment chain, even if the replacement is the bank itself.
I don’t really get this tbh…
Plenty of threads on lemmy where people argue cryptos have no real use. Here’s one: buying a product in europe without paying taxes to donald trump
Name one place I can spend crypto that isn’t a dodgy online market
Or indeed a place to buy it for real money that doesn’t involve a US payment processing company.
No point if you have to pay to get it in the first place.
mullvad
Noted European retailer, newegg.
You just said “one place”
Proton or Mullvad if you prefer.
I concede that there are online services that aren’t money laundering fronts or drug marketplaces that accept cryptocurrency as payment. OP also provided examples of online services accepting bitcoin.
I should have been more specific, my mistake. I was thinking more about every day purchases like groceries in a brick and mortar shop.
Fair, I was thinking more brick & mortar and grocery shops but, fair.
There are also privacy-paranoid companies selling custom mobile phones without microphones for crypto currencies that you can then pick up in person.
But honestly, I wouldn’t trust them. If your threat level is the government you should purchase a used phone from a random stranger and pay with cash.
Oh thanks for clarifying… I don’t really see those posts, to be honest.
I do hold some crypto myself (BTC). I think it’s good to have some sort of currency outside of FIAT, just in case, but I don’t foresee it ever becoming a thing in the EU.
This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters
When crypto is backed by a regulatory body and isn’t just speculative gambling, I might take it more seriously.
The same regulatory bodies that “regulate” banks atm?
Yes, the ones that ensure my money still exists if a bank goes under. Those exact ones.
One of the reasons bitcoin was made is that there’s no bank that can go under and you always own your money
there’s no bank that can go under and you always own your money
https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/bankruptcies/
The crypto industry has seen some large bankruptcies. We’ve made a list here and documented all the numbers.
850,000 BTC Chapter 15
Mt. Gox, a Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange operating from 2010-2014, handled over 70% of Bitcoin transactions. In 2014, after a major hack compromising between 650,000 to 850,000 Bitcoins, it declared bankruptcy. A lengthy legal battle concluded in 2021 with a rehabilitation plan for creditors.
FTX $9 Billion USD Chapter 11
The bankrupt FTX crypto exchange recovered $7.3 billion in assets, a rise of $800 million since January. FTX is considering its future and a possible reboot after issues under ex-founder Sam Bankman-Fried, who faces fraud charges.
Three Arrows Capital $3.5B Chapter 15
Liquidators for the bankrupt crypto hedge fund Three Arrows Capital claim its founders, Kyle Davies, and Su Zhu, are not cooperating with asset recovery. Davies argues that FTX and Alameda Research caused their downfall. Despite challenges, liquidators have recovered some assets, including $35 million and multiple cryptocurrency tokens. Three Arrows filed for bankruptcy following the collapse of cryptocurrencies Luna and TerraUSD in 2022.
Genesis $3.4B Chapter 11
Genesis Global Capital, a crypto lending unit of venture capital firm Digital Currency Group (DCG), filed for U.S. bankruptcy while owing $3.4 billion. Genesis plans to sell assets to repay creditors. Its parent, Genesis Global Holdco, and Genesis Asia Pacific also filed for bankruptcy. The largest creditor, crypto exchange Gemini, claims $765.9 million.
BlockFi $1.3B+ Chapter 11
BlockFi filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy after FTX’s collapse. With liabilities and assets between $1-$10 billion, it owed FTX US $275 million. BlockFi previously faced liquidity issues due to Three Arrows Capital’s implosion and significant exposure to FTX.
Core Scientific $1.4B Chapter 11
Core Scientific, post-bankruptcy, is expanding with 900 additional Bitcoin mining machines through LM Funding. By the end of April, LM’s total machines will reach 3,900. Despite the bankruptcy, Core continued operations and recently proposed a new president.
Voyager Digital $1.3B Chapter 11
Bankrupt crypto lender Voyager Digital will return 35% of cryptocurrency deposits to customers after Binance.US’s failed buyout. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge approved Voyager’s $1.33 billion liquidation plan. Withdrawals may start by June 1. Future distributions depend on litigation outcomes.
Celsius 1.2 billion USD Chapter 11
Bankrupt crypto lender, Celsius Network, has selected Fahrenheit’s proposal to manage a new entity owned by its creditors, leading Celsius out of bankruptcy. Fahrenheit will establish and operate the new company (NewCo). Celsius previously filed for Chapter 11 protection after industry growth during 2020.
Cryptopia $16 million USD Chapter 15
Cryptopia, a New Zealand crypto exchange, announced the third phase of its reimbursement plan following a 2019 hack costing users over $15 million. Verified customers will soon receive their outstanding balances. Meanwhile, FTX faces bankruptcy challenges.
Compute North $400 million USD Chapter 11
Compute North’s reorganization plan, settling $250 million in secured debt, was approved by a federal judge. The North American crypto mining company reached terms with 11 firms, including Marathon Digital Holdings, after filing for bankruptcy.
Bittrex Global $500M - $1B Chapter 11
Bittrex filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy a month after ceasing U.S. operations. This follows a $53 million fine by the U.S. Treasury and a lawsuit from the SEC. Despite struggles in the U.S., Bittrex’s international operations remain unaffected.
Blockchain Global $15B Voluntary administration
Blockchain Global (BGL), the parent company of the defunct Australian crypto exchange ACX, owes $15 million after collapsing. The Victoria Supreme Court froze 117.33 Bitcoin linked to BGL and ACX Tech. BGL later entered voluntary administration. Former director Sam Lee distanced himself from BGL’s operations. ACX’s sudden shutdown in 2020 left many investors out of pocket.
Babel Finance $800M Restructuring
Hong Kong-based Babel Finance plans to launch a decentralized stablecoin, Babel Recovery Coins, to repay creditors. The DeFi project features stablecoin HOPE and Light Token, backed initially by Bitcoin and Ethereum. Babel faced significant losses after the Terra ecosystem meltdown.
Hodlnaut $267M Judicial management
Singapore-based crypto lender Hodlnaut seeks potential buyers after creditors rejected a restructuring plan, pushing for liquidation. Hodlnaut owes $160 million, with most assets on bankrupt exchange FTX. Hodlnaut faced challenges, and reduced workforce amid investigations.
Zipmex $53M Debt Relief
Crypto exchange Zipmex seeks a two-month moratorium extension in Singapore due to an investor, V Ventures, missing a $1.25 million payment for a takeover. This delays customer withdrawals following Zipmex’s bankruptcy after Terra’s collapse.
Except for all those cryptocurrency exchanges that keep going down and taking everyone’s money
You are not forced to use them
You’re not forced to use a normal bank, you can keep your money at home in cash
You’re not forced to use a normal bank, you can keep your money at home in cash
In my country you cannot buy a house or receive a salary in cash. I’m my previous comment i was pointing out that you are not forced to use cryptocurrency exchanges to use cryptocurrencies like bitcoin.
It can also be worthless from one day to the next. I hold BTC, I’ve lost £300 this week. I wouldn’t want to put my whole salary into BTC.
I hold BTC, I’ve lost £300 this week.
You are lucky you don’t own any venezuelan bolivars or you could have lost more than that. Real currencies can go down too.
Good thing I don’t live in Venezuela.
The call of the bolivars was all but unannounced, while the up and down of BTC and more of less known crypto are waaaaaay less predictable
Much like a volatile currency, though I suppose a better example would be an asset like gold or silver, except you can instantly sell bitcoin back. Look at it less like a currency and more like an asset.
Corporations in America don’t pay taxes. They kill us slowly and erode our democracy and sponsor facism but they don’t pay taxes.
They don’t pay income tax, but they do pay tax. They pay payroll taxes when paying employees, and those employees have to pay income taxes on those wages.
If you buy american, some of that money will go to the feds in taxes, and the US has a major corporate tax evasion problem. Both are true.
They’re not the only options!
There’s also… American Express
How do we not have an international European card processor?
Because usa government and companies bought the current politicians
While it is partly true - look at how big lobbyorganisations of said companies are in Strasburg - I do not like how General this is. “All politicians are bought” is just straight up wrong.
So is cash the only non-US option? Even my current account uses visa debit.
Visa at least probably doesn’t collect a per transaction surcharge on these transactions right? I mean, they probably do get your data and probably ultimately still cost you money in a round about way.
I have no idea. I’ve wondered about buying those prepaid MasterCards for things where a card is needed. It’s kind of like you need to think like someone doing fraud just to opt out of a financial norms that you don’t agree with. People are already weirded out by someone paying cash here.
In (only) Italy you can use Bancomat
I think that’s one of the part where there is no credible alternative, most of your credit/debit card will be either Visa or Mastercard, they’re monoliths
every time you pay for something with your credit card you are most likely paying taxes to trump and his goons
Genuine question, how so?
