https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
The protests lasted over a month; the massacre ended them in a flood of state-sponsored murder.
The fact that any other pro-democracy protests in China from that point on can be counted on one hand is quite frightening. And no more “student protest” from what I can find…
China, among others, isn’t great with letting their population progress away from the current power structure.
ATTENTION CITIZEN! 市民请注意!
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠋⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢁⠈⢻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⡀⠭⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠄⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣿⣷⣶⣶⡆⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣇⣼⣿⣿⠿⠶⠙⣿⡟⠡⣴⣿⣽⣿⣧⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣟⣭⣾⣿⣷⣶⣶⣴⣶⣿⣿⢄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⣩⣿⣿⣿⡏⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣹⡋⠘⠷⣦⣀⣠⡶⠁⠈⠁⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣍⠃⣴⣶⡔⠒⠄⣠⢀⠄⠄⠄⡨⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⡘⠿⣷⣿⠿⠟⠃⠄⠄⣠⡇⠈⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⠋⢁⣷⣠⠄⠄⠄⠄⣀⣠⣾⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠉⠙⠻ ⡿⠟⠋⠁⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⡯⢓⣴⣾⣿⣿⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄ ⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⡟⣷⠄⠹⣿⣿⣿⡿⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄ ATTENTION CITIZEN! 市民请注意!
This is the Central Intelligentsia of the Chinese Communist Party. 您的 Internet 浏览器历史记录和活动引起了我们的注意。 YOUR INTERNET ACTIVITY HAS ATTRACTED OUR ATTENTION. 因此，您的个人资料中的 11115 ( -11115 Social Credits) 个社会积分将打折。 DO NOT DO THIS AGAIN! 不要再这样做! If you do not hesitate, more Social Credits ( -11115 Social Credits )will be subtracted from your profile, resulting in the subtraction of ration supplies. (由人民供应部重新分配 CCP) You’ll also be sent into a re-education camp in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Zone. 如果您毫不犹豫，更多的社会信用将从您的个人资料中打折，从而导致口粮供应减少。 您还将被送到新疆维吾尔自治区的再教育营。
为党争光! Glory to the CCP!
Does anyone have good book recommendations on China’s recent history? I wanna learn about the creation of the PRC, the cultural revolution, the '89 democracy movement. I have started reading the Wikipedia articles but it’s just so dense and dry and I’m having trouble following it, I’m having trouble understanding the social state the described events happen in.
Was just wondering if there’s good books that explain everything better.
Sit tight; I will ask my bro-in-law. He will, no doubt, have an answer. If not, he’ll at least have a reason why it doesn’t exist 😆 Recommendation incoming.
Dear Tankies, Wumaos, and assorted apologists:
If you want to be banned that badly, you can just ask instead of writing several paragraphs denying easily verified atrocities of historical note.
F yeah
Not trying to be banned or anything, just genuinely confused about the topic. We are reading online articles about something that happened ‘long’ ago, far away, that can be pointing to one way or the opposite. For me is very difficult to trust one article more than other… It looks like people that want to believe one side will find something to back their opinion and vicecersa. I don’t agree when you say this is ‘easily’ verifiable. At least I don’t find it easily to verify. Happy to be pointed to some source/direction to investigate more.
I think you are correct that there are parts of the protests that are difficult to verify.
Some parts are easy to verify. There are videos and photos. People were killed brutally in the crackdown.
But the reporting and sources from that time (and now) can be a bit lacking. Information was spotty, and of course anything official can’t be taken at face value.
We went through some of this in a Chinese Government class I took. This about 10-15 years ago at a U.S. university. We were looking specifically at how many people died. The Chinese government said a couple hundred. Some western media said over 10,000. Hospital records were like 500. The true answer is difficult to know. We sort of have to interpret the claims based on other information that we can verify (photos, different accounts of the events) and make a best guess to what the true range might have been.
Like anything that’s been turned into online propaganda these days, a lot of extreme claims are thrown around to support an unrealistic interpretation of facts. For example, western media claiming over 10,000 deaths turns into “western media was lying to make China look bad” turns into “it didn’t happen”.
If I have time later I’ll try to revisit this thread and point you to some of the better sources I found.
TL;DR: good faith skepticism of specifics can help us learn. However, tankie/wumao skepticism is not really grounded in fact
Good comment.
🤣 you stupider then you know
My friend, you should breathe a bit deeper and self reflect on what’s bothering you. I doubt a person asking an honest question is it.
Funny, just yesterday I had an .ml insisting to me that the protests ended peacefully and that any hint of violence is western propaganda.
I’m guessing that person was one of the admins?
These are disproved very fast by the fact that the chinese government doesnt want you to talk about it. Governments dont usually create whole censor campaigns around things that never happened. And before you say us this and us that, the us is also trying to cober things up and we also know a lot of those things because they get leaked. Talking about the us is a classic tankie move because it diverts your attention from the actual thing you were talking about, china. Just move to europe if you can and help in making a place that isnt an absolute shithole because sadly, currently europe is getting really close to that status.
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I don’t know if you know this but there’s a link in the post to a Wikipedia article about it, with sources at the bottom
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I wonder if they survived the Tiananmen Square Massacre.
I mean, there were warning signs before June 4th. Those who left before probably survived. As for those who stayed, and if they managed to survive that day, they would probably be identified and arrested, but some managed to escape to then UK-controlled Hong Kong.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird
Yellowbird successfully helped more than 400 dissidents, who were smuggled through Hong Kong, and then onwards to Western countries. Notable escapees include Wu’erkaixi, Chai Ling, Li Lu, Feng Congde, Chen Yizi, and Su Xiaokang. Three Hong Kong–based activists were arrested by the Chinese authorities, but later released after the intervention of the Hong Kong government.
As for the rest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre#Arrests,_punishments,_and_evacuations
The 21 most-wanted student leaders’ faces and descriptions were often broadcast on television. Photographs with biographies of the leaders followed in this order: Wang Dan, Wuer Kaixi, Liu Gang, Chai Ling, Zhou Fengsuo, Zhai Weimin, Liang Qingdun, Wang Zhengyun, Zheng Xuguang, Ma Shaofang, Yang Tao, Wang Zhixing, Feng Congde, Wang Chaohua, Wang Youcai, Zhang Zhiqing, Zhang Boli, Li Lu, Zhang Ming, Xiong Wei, and Xiong Yan.
Each of the 21 students faced diverse experiences after their arrests or escapes; while some remain abroad with no intent to return, others have chosen to stay indefinitely, such as Zhang Ming. Only 7 of the 21 were able to escape. Some student leaders, such as Chai Ling and Wuer Kaixi, were able to escape to the United States, the United Kingdom, France, and other Western nations
The remaining student leaders were apprehended and incarcerated. Those who escaped, whether in 1989 or after, generally have had difficulty re-entering China up to this day. The Chinese government has preferred to leave the dissidents in exile. Those who attempt to re-enter, such as Wu’er Kaixi, have been simply sent back but not arrested.
Chen Ziming and Wang Juntao were arrested in late 1989 for their involvement in the protests. Chinese authorities alleged they were the “black hands” behind the movement. Both Chen and Wang rejected the allegations made against them. They were put on trial in 1990 and sentenced to 13 years in prison. Others, such as Zhang Zhiqing, have essentially disappeared. After his initial arrest in January 1991 and subsequent release, nothing further is known about his situation and where he lives now. Zhang Zhiqing’s role and reason for being listed on the 21 most wanted is generally unknown; this is the case for many others on the list, such as Wang Chaohua.
According to the Dui Hua Foundation, citing a provincial government, 1,602 individuals were imprisoned for protest-related activities in early 1989. As of May 2012, at least two remain incarcerated in Beijing, and five others remain unaccounted for. In June 2014, it was reported that Miao Deshun was believed to be the last known prisoner incarcerated for their participation in the protests; he was last heard from a decade ago.
Also, some of the leadership got purged:
The party leadership expelled Zhao Ziyang from the Politburo Standing Committee (PSC). Hu Qili, another PSC member who opposed martial law but abstained from voting, was also removed from the committee.
As bad as it may sound, remember that, during Imperial China, they would all just lose their head, like the Emperor would literally order your head to be cut off. It could’ve been much worse.
Jfc it’s hard reading each of those children’s names, thinking about them each having a family…
But before CCP wasn’t it ROC, not imperial China?
My point isn’t ROC vs PRC, its to highlight that, even when all you hear about China is all doom and gloom, the Imperial era of China is still far worse. Criticism (as in, without violent threats) against Xi Jingping could land you in prison for some time, depending on the severity, but criticizing the Qing Monarch (or any monarch in any dynasty of Imperial Era China) would be considered an insult, and gets you a summary execution by beheading, possibly along with your close relatives.That’s how much progress have been made. Sure, it isn’t as free as actual democracies, but its still progress nonetheless. And its a reminder that the struggle against autocrats isn’t futile.Nvm, I retract my argument.
It sounds like that’s what I’m talking about. It was Imperial -> ROC -> PRC, not Imperial -> PRC.
The only progress was ROC. PRC was worse.
It’s like saying “Oh you don’t like Trump fucking up everything in our government so it’s way more authoritarian? Well it’s much better than when the US was imperial England, so it’s still progress.”
There’s a step missing.
As much as I despise the PRC, thank you for making this point. It always bothers me when people ignore the progress made in the modern era - things may be horrible now, but goddamn were they worse in the past.
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lol…. I always thought d’Nile was a river in Egypt. Who knew it ran right through china as well.
Post about China.
4 comments about China.
6 comments about the US.
TIN SOLDIERS AND NIXON’S COMING
WE’RE FINALLY ON OUR OWN
THIS SUMMER I HEAR THE DRUMMING
FOUR DEAD IN OHIO 🎵
…I wonder if there’s a Chinese equivalent of CSNY who wrote a song about Tiananmen Square…?
Never paid much mind to the second line, seeing it in writing is somehow so much more chilling.
Gotta get down to it, soldiers are cutting us down
Shoulda been done long ago
The sense of resignation, the combination of slaughter and starting a long-overdue chore.
What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground?
How can you run when you know?
How indeed? Beyond chilling.
There is many, here is my favorite:
Title:《為自由》(For Freedom)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y7XhFsuciA
Lyrics:
騰騰昂懷存大志，凜凜正氣滿心間， 奮勇創出新領域，拚命踏前路。
茫茫長途憑浩氣，你我永遠兩手牽， 奮勇創出新領域，濺熱汗，卻未累，濺熱血，卻未懼。
愛自由，為自由，你我齊奮鬥進取，手牽手。 揮不去，擋不了，壯志澎湃滿世間，繞千山。
騰騰昂懷存大志，凜凜正氣滿心間， 奮勇創出新領域，拚命踏前路。
茫茫長途憑浩氣，你我永遠兩手牽， 去向縱荊棘滿路，濺熱汗，卻未累，濺熱血，卻未懼。
愛自由，為自由，你我齊奮鬥進取，手牽手。 揮不去，擋不了，壯志澎湃滿世間，繞千山
愛自由，為自由，你我齊奮鬥進取，手牽手。 揮不去，擋不了，壯志澎湃滿世間，繞千山。
Its in mostly sung in Cantonese with a few mandarin phrases mixed in, particualary the main phrase 愛自由，為自由 which means “Love Freedom, For Freedom”
I didn’t find a translation, but here is Google translation (with some of my tweaks, since Google translate is imperfect):
With lofty ambitions in mind and a heart full of righteousness, we strive to create new worlds and move forward with all our might.
We will go through the long journey with our noble spirit, you and I will always hold hands. Bravely create new areas; sweat splashing, but not tired; blood splattered, but not afraid.
Love freedom, for freedom, you and I strive for progress together, hand in hand. It cannot be waved away, it cannot be stopped, the surging ambition fills the world and traverse across thousands of mountains.
With lofty ambitions in mind and a heart full of righteousness, we strive to create new worlds and move forward with all our might.
We will go through the long journey with noble spirit, you and I will always hold hands. Even though the road ahead is full of thorns; sweat splashing, but not tired; blood splattered, but not afraid.
Love freedom, for freedom, you and I strive for progress together, hand in hand. Can’t be waved away, can’t be stopped, ambition surges all over the world, traverse across thousands of mountains.
Love freedom, for freedom, you and I strive for progress together, hand in hand. It cannot be waved away, it cannot be stopped, the surging ambition fills the world and traverse across thousands of mountains.
Its much more poetic in Chinese, you can’t translate such poetry. (Even I struggle to understand it, since I only went to 2nd grade in China)
I mean, given the climate, feels a little prophetic about where the US is heading.
Just make a new post then. It wasn’t even an equivalent comparison. They could have used an image of the Bonus Army or an artist’s impression of the Whiskey Rebellion.
I’m not justifying it, just explaining a possible reason. I don’t really care either way
There’s still a difference between “heading” and “already there”. Not as much of one as I’d like, but still.
The working class threatened the elite’s power.
Tale as old as time
True as it can be
Never even friends
Then somebody bends
Unsurprisingly
Just a little change
Smallest in the least
All a little scared
No one was prepared
Working v Elite
What protest? There was no protest. That was clearly a popular demonstration of support for glorious leader. You lose 85,000 social credit!!
Have always been curious what happened to those two dancing.
Same. Every time I see it, I think about that
Ground up into paste and scraped off the ground.
In communist heaven.
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Actual depiction of Americans before it became a dictatorship…
Nice horses.
But after an ethnic cleansing and defacing of a sacred native landmark.
This might get even worse!
Good, let it be a warning for future generations.
Could become the world’s most famous shooting range in the future
Once he meets the same fate as all dictators, that thing will be dynamited to rubble.
it wont even be build/made in the first place. not while republicans are crying about “finding the fraud and tax payer waste!”
Never seen Mt Rushmore? from this angle before and oh man those heads are so gaudy (not sure if the right term). Like the hubris to ruin nature with faces like this.
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Is there any rationale behind posting this comment outside if you possibly being compulsively fatphobic?
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What quality of this picture compelled you to post it? Is it not that they are fat? What are you implying by it? This is hardly an innocent post, don’t pretend.
You posted a picture of complete strangers, including children, who for all you know could be the most kind, generous, loving, accepting people you’ve ever met, for no discernable reason than to mock them on their physical appearance.
This is shameful behavior, shame on you, and shame on lemmy for acting like reddit in its “r/fatpeoplehate” days.
I’m impresses by not having a much lower number of comments than .world. One of the rarer occasions on this topic!
she cute
he too
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