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Wut? Was he talking about the previous Ukrainian government, sponsored by Russia™? I can’t make sense of what he is saying, actually.
I had to reread it a few times myself, but I’m pretty sure that’s what he’s talkin about
Because everyone knows Russia is well known for their totally legit free and fair elections/s
i got a veteran friend who would not take kindly to people saying her country should be permanently tied to a country whose name she refuses to spell correctly. the .ml tankists have, apparently, no concept of a false flag operation
Or they argue in bad faith.
I hope so because I don’t want to believe people can be so stupid they can probably not breathe and walk simultaneously.
When Russia interferes, it’s fair and democratic elections, when the west spens a few million on pro-democracy and anti-corruption initiatives it’s Western election interference and bad.
Dude doesn’t know about Euromaidan. I wish some of these children would go to russia.
They like the idea of Russia, not actual Russia.
I honestly can’t tell if these .ml guys in these discussions are trolling or just spouting retarded nonsense and calling everyone a Nazi for the sake of it
Hey, no judgement, but we’re trying to cut down use of the r-term around here, as a courtesy to those who it’s been used to unfairly hurt. Just for future reference.
And on and on the euphemism train goes, where’s the next stop? There’s going to be a slur for the mentally deficient, tell me which one you endorse.
None. Don’t insult people over stuff they can’t control. Call them ignorant shitheads not ugly/retarded/etc.
So shithead is the new slur for mental deficiency?
Is that what you call unintelligent uneducated indoctrinated rural people who piss you off with zealotry and hate?
Ignorance is not a disability, it’s a choice. So no, it’s not a slur for mental deficiency.
First of all, resorting to insults, great show of intelligence.
Second of all, if you need me to explain to you the difference between ignorance and stupidity, or the average bigot and people with actual mental disability then you have some catching up to do before we can discuss this topic.
Yogthos is the kind of piece of shit that “critically supports” bombing Ukrainian kindergartens and maternity wards as long as, somewhere in the world, at least one Western tear is shed over it. Blocking them makes the fediverse far less unpleasant.
Wonder why that user account is above the rules of the instance and its communities. The modlog is full of examples which should apply to their behavior as well
They’re a mod of several .ml communities. Just like every communist dictatorship, laws and rules don’t matter when it’s the one in charge breaking them.
Let’s not pander the charade of that being communism
Perhaps there should be a new word for this communism that doesn’t oppress
Isn’t it just Marxism or communism.
Like democracy doesn’t have a new word because some people oppress in the name of it
Yep. Leninist aren’t communist. And never will be. They use the term ironically like magats use the term freedom. They make it their identity despite being opposed to it.
Ah yes, the famously communist Russian Federation. The RF is nakedly an imperial fascist regime that doesn’t even have communist window dressing, it boggles the mind that self-proclaimed communists and anti-imperialists support them.
RF is a Cult of personality, pretending to be a Mafia, pretending to be an empire. pretending to be a gas station masquerading as a state.
Careful you’ll get banned from .ml for saying that… :)-
Well in that case:
Ah yes, the famously communist Russian Federation. The RF is nakedly an imperial fascist regime that doesn’t even have communist window dressing, it boggles the mind that self-proclaimed communists and anti-imperialists support them.
Unfortunately it does seem increasingly like the Ukraine government has used the war as an excuse to tighten its grip on power and tamp down on democracy. I hope these changes can be reversed but I’m not overly optimistic.
That doesn’t mean a Russian puppet government would be any better though.
To be fair, it is hard to hold a proper democratic election with part of a country occupied. Either you hold an election in which people in those areas cant vote and while risking division during a time of crisis, or you dont hold an election and in doing so risk democratic backsliding. Im not really sure that there’s a good answer to that situation
Not only is it “hard,” it is spelled out in the UA constitution that this is what happens when there’s a war going on in Ukraine.
Human rights and democracy are above the law. If the law contradicts them, then the law is wrong.
You know what created the situation where Ukraine had to pause elections? Russia’s invasion. You know when elections will resume in Ukraine? When Russia fucks off.
But, sure, blame Ukraine for that.
What a pointless comment. I’m not blaming them for being invaded, that’s absurd. They are responsible for their own actions. No more, no less. Why do you think the invasion means the Ukrainian government no longer has agency in the territories it controls?
what “own actions” are they responsible for?
getting shot at???
Maybe if you think about it you can figure out what I’m talking about using something called context.
What’s the Kremlin like?
It’s an awful, murderous, autocratic institution. What’s the CIA like?
I disagree. Ukraine does not have direct control over those territories. So it does not seem a major issue that people there cannot vote for a government that does not govern them.
If Ukraine is able to retake these territories then they can allow people to vote in the next election. If Ukraine retains or expands its democratic ideals then it would only be a short period where they would be controlled by a government they did not vote for.
I could see a case for postponing elections if the country was in such a total state of disarray that it was not practical to hold them. But it’s clear that this is not the case outside of the eastern front lines and occupied territories.
But doing so will just give propaganda fodder for the occupying country
“See, your country doesn’t care about you, come to our side blah blah blah”
It’s a tight rope to walk for sure, but I haven’t seen anything out of Ukraine to suggest they’ve fallen off it
As we can see, not holding elections is also creating propaganda for Russia and its defenders. I don’t think this is a major problem enough to deny people a voice in decision-making.
Propagandists gonna propagandize regardless. Stop blaming the victims.
Yeah that was my point… Nobody is blaming the victims but you’re saying they shouldn’t have a voice in their own government.
Why don’t you spend all this energy you’re putting into ignorant takes into criticizing the actual problem and aggressors here - Russia
How has it tightened its grip on power? I’m genuinely asking, I don’t know.
Lincoln did the same thing, for what it’s worth, arresting people who published secessionist newspapers and detaining civilians without due process who he said were “dangerous to the public safety.” What he said about it was that, in war people get murdered on a massive scale, property gets stolen, cities burn, all the rules go out the window. If that’s what we’re doing, we might as well do it and try to win.
“Are all the laws but one to go unexecuted, and the Government itself go to pieces lest that one be violated? Even in such a case, would not the official oath be broken if the Government should be overthrown when it was believed that disregarding the single law would tend to preserve it?”
I’m not saying I agree as pertains to Ukraine. Like I said I really don’t know what has been happening with them. Ukraine has famously had a pretty corrupt government as all the post-Soviet states tended to do, and I am in favor of the upsetting story of them trying to replace it with something decent, all the while at the mercy of massive powers on all sides which don’t have their best interests at heart.
Canceled elections and tamping down freedom of speech: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/18/world/europe/ukraine-press-freedom.html
War obviously poses challenges and some changes may be necessary but Lincoln did hold elections during the civil war and I believe it is perhaps the most important time for people’s voices to be heard, despite the challenges. The war is primarily confined to eastern Ukraine so I see no practical reason elections could not be held. Other than that they may not be in the interests of ruling powers.
Power always corrupts and wartime powers are no different.
- War is not confined to eastern regions, it never was, even in 2014.
- Elections and freedom of speech, also freedom of movement, freedom of association and a lot of other freedoms are suspended for the duration of martial law being in effect, that’s part of the law. Changes to constitution, referendums, strikes are prohibited as well. Law #389-vii (may 12, 2015) itself is powered by Constitution (article 64 part 2 mentions what freedoms can’t be suspended during martial law). All previous iterations of the law starting from 2000, I think, have ± same conditions and change mostly in wording.
- Civil war was civil as in not against outside threat and it wasn’t an existential threat. Stated r*ssian goals include genocide.
I never said it was completely confined there, just primarily. I think contextually it should be clear that what I mean is that war has not affected the government or society away from the front so dramatically that elections could not be held.
I am aware of the law. But I think the law is wrong. Ukraine has never been a particularly democratic country so its laws were a product of that context, even before the war. They open the door to autocracy and should be changed.
Your last point isn’t relevant. They could and still should hold elections regardless of Russias intentions which they have no ability to bring about outside of their area of control.
You do understand law as a concept? Especially constitution as a basic law that can’t be violated unless every other law becomes invalid?
As for not being particularly democratic that’s either extremely uninformed or completely detached view. I would love to hear what is not particularly democratic about ukrainian state.
As for president and safety council being autocratic, and holding dictatorial power, that is the whole point of martial law and any kind of emergency powers that granted to elected or not elected officials during emergency.
I acknowledge that laws exist. I don’t respect or follow the bad ones. The laws were written, as in many countries, to prevent self governance by the people. This is always and everywhere the greatest fear of the powerful.
Your comment is self-contradictory. A dictatorship that governs with emergency powers and no elections is in no way democratic.
It’s clear from your comment that you think this kind of dictatorship is a good idea. I think you should defend this idea instead of acting confused about what I mean when you clearly understand what I’m talking about here.
This war has nothing to do with any people’s right to self determination. It is a clash between two imperialist powers. Russia’s actions are criminal and cruel and it needs to be stopped. The same goes for China and even more so the DPRK. But the fastest way to do so is to end the war asap. Just because one imperialism is less atrocious doesn’t mean it should be a permissible leftist policy to support imperialism. That’s what the socdems did in Europe in 1914, and it cost the working class a golden opportunity to revolt. In an imperialist war, the left should always want their own bourgeois state to lose, because it weakens it and makes it easier to topple. On neither side is it the ruling class that is suffering and dying - it’s working class people with their views clouded by nationalism, propaganda, and the promise of money or freedom from prison.
What Karl Liebknecht said over 100 years ago has lost nothing of its truth - The main enemy is at home.
So you support full scale mobilisation of NATO to match on Moscow right? That’d end the war right quick.
I know you’re trying to be sarcastic, but you’re actually just showing that you didn’t read my comment. I d o n o t s u p p o r t e i t h e r e m p i r e. Besides, when has a European force marching on Moscow ever ended in a quick victory for the European power?
I d o n o t s u p p o r t e i t h e r e m p i r e.
Yet apparently, you only support resolutions which result in the Russian empire being allowed to continue its genocide unabated, I guess because Ukrainian lives are devalued by being part of the Western Empire or the Imperial Core™ or whatever the buzzword of the day is.
Heh, he is pretty accurate in this =)
Go ahead and explain how, we’ll wait… Heh.
